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Ironically, the alternative would have been to pay her tuition instead of ensuring their retirement. Haven't you been promoting that parents should ensure their retirement ahead of their children's educations? That's what the parents did in this scenario. I'm surprised you now have a problem with college students having to change colleges so their parents are prepared for retirement.
Noooo... They stopped paying for college to take in the grand parents. I don't recall reading anything about their own retirement.
I don't "have a problem" with the girl changing schools. I was only pointing out that there could be reasons she didn't transfer.
I haven't been "promoting" anything. the question is "do kids owe parents." Even the posters saying they'd help their parents have said they don't "owe" them. My only issue with the OP's scenario is that the parent expects to be taken care of. I think that is the wrong approach. Some of you keep making us out to be heartless people who wouldn't help our own family. That is simply not true. You keep ignoring the original question.
Any financial planner that gives you that kind of advice is departing from the premise that individualism is a natural, normal, universal and unquestionable part of human nature. It isn't.
Given the doctrine of individualism is dominant in American culture, the financial planner would be right within this particular context; which doesn't mean he is right, universally speaking.
Here you DO a need to cover your a** first because if your child grows up in this culture (especially the white one) chances are he will not feel he owes you any support in old age like you owed him support during his childhood. I mean, look at most answers in this thread. In a culture where most people feel like this, you'd be risking a lot by not listening to that matter-of-fact financial planner guy.
That doesn't change the fact that parents all over the world instinctively want to sacrifice for their children as they grow up. They want to give their children opportunities to do better in life than they have, even at the expense of their own future well-being.
Now THIS is natural and commendable - and doing that is not "poor planning", it is having parental instincts that haven't been stunted by a detached, self-serving view of "money management".
Yes, some people will even jeopardize their own future security so their children can take piano lessons or whatever else they believe may open gates for the child to a better life.
When humans' ability to sacrifice for significant others becomes atrophied - something that somehow makes life worth living is lost.
Your version of what is right and just is the antithesis of the American way of life. We began this country with a Declaration of Independence, and it has always been valued as an ideal.
Of course we want the best we can provide for our children. Some kids are born into better circumstances than others. If the best one can provide for their offspring is a community college,or no college at all, then it would be ludicrous to sacrifice the financial security of old age to do otherwise. And, in this country, there are precious few safety nets for poor seniors.
I'm certain my sons would rather we make sure our financial needs are met by being prudent, even if it meant denying them something they want. After all, the alternative would be our coming to them with our hands out at some point down the road.
My dad is going to be making more in retirement than I do working.. 25+ years in the military and another 20 in IT for the US DOJ.
He talks about what he'll leave as an inheritance.. I look at that the same way as the OP's question.. Absolutely not. It's not his job to leave an inheritance to me.. I tell him to stop saving money when he hits retirement and spend what he's saved up through his life.
It's not the parents job to leave kids an inheritance nor is it the kids job to support their parents in retirement.
My dad, towards the end of his life, was expressing regret that he didn't have more to leave us when he died. I had to tell him, in no uncertain terms, that as far as I was concerned, I hoped he managed to enjoy spending every single dime that he had worked so damn hard for.
It will be a cold day in hell before I take money from my kids. Yes, I raised them, cared for them, educated them, clothed them -- but that was my responsibility, privilege and pleasure. It didn't come with an IOU.
I don't "have a problem" with the girl changing schools. I was only pointing out that there could be reasons she didn't transfer.
And I'm pointing out that her choice to carry debt and remain at school isn't her parent's fault. They made a decision based on priorities between an able bodied young adult and two elderly family members. She made the decision to carry debt based on her priorities---credits, major, friends, whatever. Instead of resenting and blaming her parents, she should take ownership for her own decision to carry debt. I can't fathom someone waiving promises in the face of an unexpected development of a grandparent and great-grandparent needing help. That's not the way any generation of my family has responded to a family crisis. I'm not saying people should do it my way. I'm just saying these are the values of my family.
We began this country with a Declaration of Independence, and it has always been valued as an ideal.
This made me burst out laughing. The Declaration of Independence is the perfect example of standing together in a time of crisis to protect one another based on the shared values of the group. It's actually very selfless document considering it was created as our forefathers were sacrificing their very lives for values that had nothing to do with individuals standing on their own two feet.
The Declaration of Independence pulled our country together. That's what the united part of the United States of America means. America is all about being unified as a group, and that's one of the main reasons our Constitution is the oldest one in the world. Other countries' constitutions crumble due to power struggles of individuals. The basic premise of our government's success is to stand together at all costs.
Back when my son was growing up and working so hard and we pushed him for success because we saw a special talent in him, we always said once you are an adult and are a millionaire, you can support your Mom and Dad.
Now that boy is a man and is in fact a millionaire. We would like to believe that part of his success is a result of us pushing him to succeed. So we are in part responsible for his success.
Is it his responsibility to send us money now we don't work anymore and no employer will hire my wife and I- too old?
No, because it wasn't his choice to be born.
You did your job as parents. Most parents try hard to guide their kids towards financially sound situations, but most don't become millionaires though. Did you push him to get rich so he can support you purposely? cause that would be a $hitty reason to have a kid.
I am usually a supporter of families helping each other financially or otherwise, but not when there are alternative motives!
Why did you count on him to support you, as evidenced by "you can support your Mom and Dad."? Are you from a culture where it is the norm for adult children to financially support their parents in their later years? (I think this is the case in some Asian cultures)
It's not his responsibility to support you, it was your responsibility to save for your retirement so that you would be self-supporting. It would be very kind and generous of him to gift some money to you, but he's not obligated to do so.
As far as "too old" to be hireable, lots of employers are finding that older folks make great employees. I see a lot of them working at Chick-Fil-A restaurants, Walmart, as receptionists, and driving shuttle buses and vans. Maybe you should reconsider what type of positions you're applying for. I bet you could find advice and job leads at the state employment office, the state agency on aging, the health & human services agency, a senior citizens' center, or on the bulletin board at a retirement community.
And let's be clear his is by no means an Asian only phenomenon. It is common in Jewish families, and even my Irish American relatives do he same thing. My parents and their siblings all sent the grandparents a little "mad" money every month to help make ends meet. When my grandfather died and my grandmother could no longer live alone, we all took turns taking her for a month or so at a time.
The notion that the elderly are just supposed to have it all figured out all the time financially, does not jive with the realities of American history.
Your version of what is right and just is the antithesis of the American way of life. We began this country with a Declaration of Independence, and it has always been valued as an ideal.
The tendency of people to act like the way we set up our government is a proxy for how we set up our families is plain old weird. Families, by definition are anti-individual and pro group. They have to be otherwise they would not be functional.
I also resent the notion being implied that families supporting older members is unAmerican. It is a classic American phenomenon for older parents to even move back in with their children. There were no nursing homes available to anyone other than the über wealthy until last century.
And let's be clear his is by no means an Asian only phenomenon. It is common in Jewish families, and even my Irish American relatives do he same thing. My parents and their siblings all sent the grandparents a little "mad" money every month to help make ends meet. When my grandfather died and my grandmother could no longer live alone, we all took turns taking her for a month or so at a time.
The notion that the elderly are just supposed to have it all figured out all the time financially, does not jive with the realities of American history.
I was thinking about this last night, wondering why my husband and I have family values so strongly entrenched. We both have Irish Catholic mothers. Considering the utter poverty and oppression their ancestors endured prior to coming to the United States and the incredible discrimination they experienced once they got here, it's no wonder our mothers possessed such a strong sense of duty to family. My husband's father being Italian solidifies it in his family. My father's family being WASPS back to the colonial days, right down to a plantation in Virginia, is the only unexplainable ingredient, yet my father is the one who financially supported the elderly in his family and my mother's family. I always attributed that to the poverty my father endured as a child during the Great Depression. Although my fraternal grandfather was an educated professional, he wasn't prepared for retirement due to the losses during that period. My mother's family faired better because they were a farming family in West Virginia. Her parents built a house on my maternal grant grandparents' land----if that isn't an American example of families sticking together, nothing is, because it continues to this day in farming families across the country.
Since all Americans' ancestors came from various backgrounds, it's not surprising that there are many different factors in family histories that created these deeply entrenched family values. This individualism mindset is definitely a recent development in the United States. It hasn't been around for many generations, and it's certainly not embraced by all American families. What I can't figure out is where it came from. The self-made men pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and standing on their own two feet originated in American history by men who were doing it to support their families.
This individualism mindset is definitely a recent development in the United States. It hasn't been around for many generations......
How did you decide that? Just off the top of my head.... Ralph Waldo Emerson published "Self Reliance" in 1841. He began writing his essays (and preaching them) in 1830. Our history of individualism stretches back to the Founding Fathers and beyond. THEY read the great European writers on the topic of Individualism.
"Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual you have an obligation to be one." -- Elanor Roosevelt
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