Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ra, ra, ra with the "independence" ideology but yes, it is sad.
When a parent makes sacrifices during their youth to help the child achieve a lot of success instead of fattening up their own retirement account - and later the adult child becomes a millionaire yet he doesn't feel compelled to offer financial help to his parents in need - then there's something very sad in this story.
Your assumption that ALL people have enough resources to invest in their children's future success AS WELL AS a plentiful retirement is just plain wrong. Just because many Americans have historically had access to a lot of resources and were able to play the "independence" game doesn't make this type of family ties normal, natural or desirable for the rest of humanity.
Some people can't do both. In fact, MOST people can't do both.
Yet the desire to place your child's interest ahead of your own is very primal and comes naturally to most parents - except to those who rationalize it that it is better to take care of yourself first and let the child grow up with minimal parental investment and then "fend for himself" in life.
I never argued that such a son should help the parents out of a "sense of obligation".
He should have done it out of affection.
Very sad he doesn't experience enough of that for his parents so he will WANT to do it.
So the answer to the OP's question would be: no, he doesn't "owe" you money. He SHOULD have WANTED to give you money and the fact that he doesn't is a result of the less than affectionate ties between you and him.
Any financial planner will tell you to save for your own retirement before saving for your kids' college education. If you go to such an extreme to make sure your kids are successful, that you can't support yourself, that's just poor planning.
I agree with the the bolded.
What, exactly, is "minimal parental investment?" No one is advocating not taking care of your kids, not making sure they have the tools to become successful. But should you starve so your kid can take piano lessons? Of course not.
Wow. What a self-centered thing to say. Your parents raised you, fed you, clothed you, wiped your a**, stayed up all night with you when you were sick, educated you, went to your baseball games, helped you with your homework, taught you to ride a bike, and the list goes on and on and on.
Now, true to form, this is where half a dozen posters will start to gin up all these outrages in order to justify their self-centeredness. As in:
"Why my parents never fed me. When I was two, I lived off Rice Krispies that I picked up off the kitchen floor and had to change my own diapers. I was fed a steady died of ground glass and arsenic while the parents took terms beating me with unyielding metal objects. My father never called me by my name, but rather just called me by the nickname Ugly. They would leave me for days at a time with 38 cents to buy groceries at age seven and actually forgot to pick me up from school once for six weeks, where I lived off what I could scrounge in the cafeteria."
When my Dad dropped dead, I worked a second job to support my mom until she could get back on her feet. Just handed her the check. And while I don't have to do it now, if my eighty-year-old mother needed money, you bet your sweet ass I'd stroke her a check. Because she's my damn mother, that's why.
Mind you, I'm well-off now, so my kids will almost certainly never have to support me. And I would live in a cardboard refrigerator carton under the interstate before I'd ask. But we've taught them that family is supremely important. And a person who is not loyal to his own family, then he isn't loyal to anyone.
Another aspect of it is that in addition to saving for one's own retirement and raising children, a huge number of people are also in positions where they HAVE to help their parents for various reasons. Even someone pulling in a solid 6 figure income would struggle to save an adaquate amount, raise children, save money for their children's college fund, AND take care of aging parents financially. So what has to give?
One of my closest friends in college ended up having to take out HUGE unforeseen loans after her sophomore year because both her grandmother AND great grandmother moved in with her parents after her grandfather died. Even with their social security money, her parents sacrificed a promise to pay 100% for college as well as let their savings take a huge hit. Of course it was an honorable, truly good thing to do - but I also can't imagine sending my child off to a $50,000 a year school and tell them not to worry, only to back out and make them take out loans for the full amount a few years later. To each family, their own.
Going to an expensive college is definitely lower on the priority list in the scenario you describe. She didn't have to take out those huge loans. She could have transferred to a state college.
Any financial planner will tell you to save for your own retirement before saving for your kids' college education. If you go to such an extreme to make sure your kids are successful, that you can't support yourself, that's just poor planning.
I agree with the the bolded.
What, exactly, is "minimal parental investment?" No one is advocating not taking care of your kids, not making sure they have the tools to become successful. But should you starve so your kid can take piano lessons? Of course not.
Back when my son was growing up and working so hard and we pushed him for success because we saw a special talent in him, we always said once you are an adult and are a millionaire, you can support your Mom and Dad.
Now that boy is a man and is in fact a millionaire. We would like to believe that part of his success is a result of us pushing him to succeed. So we are in part responsible for his success.
Is it his responsibility to send us money now we don't work anymore and no employer will hire my wife and I- too old?
Why did you count on him to support you, as evidenced by "you can support your Mom and Dad."? Are you from a culture where it is the norm for adult children to financially support their parents in their later years? (I think this is the case in some Asian cultures)
It's not his responsibility to support you, it was your responsibility to save for your retirement so that you would be self-supporting. It would be very kind and generous of him to gift some money to you, but he's not obligated to do so.
As far as "too old" to be hireable, lots of employers are finding that older folks make great employees. I see a lot of them working at Chick-Fil-A restaurants, Walmart, as receptionists, and driving shuttle buses and vans. Maybe you should reconsider what type of positions you're applying for. I bet you could find advice and job leads at the state employment office, the state agency on aging, the health & human services agency, a senior citizens' center, or on the bulletin board at a retirement community.
Going to an expensive college is definitely lower on the priority list in the scenario you describe. She didn't have to take out those huge loans. She could have transferred to a state college.
You make it sound so simple. Never mind that the credits might not transfer, her major might not be available, or her job prospects wouldn't be as good after attending a less prestigious school, not to mention leaving her friends.
So, tell me, after reneging on their promise to pay for college, does this daughter "owe" her parents financial support in the future? Maybe at a lesser amount than she would have?
Another aspect of it is that in addition to saving for one's own retirement and raising children, a huge number of people are also in positions where they HAVE to help their parents for various reasons. Even someone pulling in a solid 6 figure income would struggle to save an adaquate amount, raise children, save money for their children's college fund, AND take care of aging parents financially. So what has to give?
One of my closest friends in college ended up having to take out HUGE unforeseen loans after her sophomore year because both her grandmother AND great grandmother moved in with her parents after her grandfather died. Even with their social security money, her parents sacrificed a promise to pay 100% for college as well as let their savings take a huge hit. Of course it was an honorable, truly good thing to do - but I also can't imagine sending my child off to a $50,000 a year school and tell them not to worry, only to back out and make them take out loans for the full amount a few years later. To each family, their own.
When I was 15, my dad picked me up at my private school which was odd b/c he never did that. Basically, he told me I had to find a job, he had lost everything and I felt the pressure. So, at 15, I lied my age (said I was 18) got a job and also had a 2nd job. Just didn't know it would go on so long.
I missed a lot. I still tried to find time for high school activities but it just wasn't the same. Always had to work.
I was determined with my own children this would not happen and here I am - still working - but that's OK. They are both independent adults in their 20's, one with a great degree from Vandy and one still working on his but who has a good job. He just bought his first home. I'm proud of both of them.
I can totally relate to the poster above who had a friend at college. I saved and saved to go away to school. Of course, I had to have a job (which I loved). But again, it was so hard - missed out on so much fun stuff.
I tell my children - balance and moderation. I will say this though - other than my dad losing everything and making bad financial decisions after that, they were great parents and I miss them
You make it sound so simple. Never mind that the credits might not transfer, her major might not be available, or her job prospects wouldn't be as good after attending a less prestigious school, not to mention leaving her friends.
So, tell me, after reneging on their promise to pay for college, does this daughter "owe" her parents financial support in the future? Maybe at a lesser amount than she would have?
Ironically, the alternative would have been to pay her tuition instead of ensuring their retirement. Haven't you been promoting that parents should ensure their retirement ahead of their children's educations? That's what the parents did in this scenario. I'm surprised you now have a problem with college students having to change colleges so their parents are prepared for retirement.
Any financial planner will tell you to save for your own retirement before saving for your kids' college education. If you go to such an extreme to make sure your kids are successful, that you can't support yourself, that's just poor planning.
t.
Any financial planner that gives you that kind of advice is departing from the premise that individualism is a natural, normal, universal and unquestionable part of human nature. It isn't.
Given the doctrine of individualism is dominant in American culture, the financial planner would be right within this particular context; which doesn't mean he is right, universally speaking.
Here you DO a need to cover your a** first because if your child grows up in this culture (especially the white one) chances are he will not feel he owes you any support in old age like you owed him support during his childhood. I mean, look at most answers in this thread. In a culture where most people feel like this, you'd be risking a lot by not listening to that matter-of-fact financial planner guy.
That doesn't change the fact that parents all over the world instinctively want to sacrifice for their children as they grow up. They want to give their children opportunities to do better in life than they have, even at the expense of their own future well-being.
Now THIS is natural and commendable - and doing that is not "poor planning", it is having parental instincts that haven't been stunted by a detached, self-serving view of "money management".
Yes, some people will even jeopardize their own future security so their children can take piano lessons or whatever else they believe may open gates for the child to a better life.
When humans' ability to sacrifice for significant others becomes atrophied - something that somehow makes life worth living is lost.
Why did you count on him to support you, as evidenced by "you can support your Mom and Dad."? Are you from a culture where it is the norm for adult children to financially support their parents in their later years? (I think this is the case in some Asian cultures)
And if they were?
Should immigrants from cultures with traditional family values automatically shed them upon entry in this country and adopt individualistic ones like those expressed in this thread, simply because they now live here ?
If these parents are from an Asian culture - then yes, the son would be expected to help the parents in old age, just like an American parent is expected to be "self-supporting" in retirement.
Both would be considered "honorable" things to do in the context of each respective culture.
Some of us do want to retain our cultural identities and certain values we were raised with - even if we now function here economically.
Some American values are really wonderful ideas; yet others suck really hard.
One of the few nice things about being an immigrant is that you can pick and choose the goods from your culture of origin as well as those from your host culture - all while rejecting the bads from both cultures.
Family togetherness, personal bonds, strong friendships and ties of affection between people, in general are not fortes of western cultures.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Some HAVE to help....
