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The anti-intellectualism on this board never ceases to amaze me. I've never met all these brilliant uneducated people everyone refers to. I know a few people w/o degrees who are intelligent, many more who are not.
I'd have to agree with this. I'll add: Those who have degrees and are still uneducated likely paid for their degree instead of earning it!
I am currently facing this. While my parents would love to help and have as much as possible they cannon. Their combined salary is less than a years tuition. As such I was forced to leave school to pay off student loans before continuing my education. Now at 22, I am completely independent; home,food, car, insurance, and phone I alone pay. At the same time FAFSA believes that because I am under 24, have no children, and am unmarried, my parents should be responsible for paying for my school. It is because of this policy that many programs are unavailable to me.
hey, according to most of the people here, college is a waste and you are better off in trade school (we are also ignoring the fact trade school also costs money). Also, high school graduates are usually the ones making the 6 figure salary. Even doctors aren't making the big dollars anymore. Only the trades (and I think a tattoo artist).
College graduates are usually the lazy ones who won't accomplish anything in their life. College = worthless.
no really. that's the majority of this thread.
Oh, and making your kid take on thousands of dollars worth of debt teaches them "Character" and makes them really independent. Because you know, signing a piece of paper = independence. Having parents who had enough forethought to save something for their kid's future = kid is a loser. Kid should be taking on loans and working full time at a min wage job to build character and appreciate college degree. Appreciation only comes this way.
Oh and every single one of these students are going to get full rides to top schools cause you know, scholarships like that are handed out like free candy.
So feel free to have multiple children, drop them out of your life when they turn 18 (they are "independent" in the eyes of the law anyways) and "hope" they do well (without actually doing anything to help them out).
oh, I forgot that a 2 year degree in oil/petro engineering lands you a 150k+ job immediately. Everyone needs to get a shovel and start working on an oil field I guess. You'll make more than petro engineers or doctors!
my personal favorite: you want to work with computers? You don't need a degree, you just need experience. We are blatantly ignoring that fact that unless you are starting out at a help desk (that doesn't lead anywhere except in a special case here and there), you're going to need a degree to get that experience.
If this is how the majority of Americans feel, no wonder America is going under.
Last edited by stellastar2345; 10-13-2014 at 03:01 PM..
hey, according to most of the people here, college is a waste and you are better off in trade school (we are also ignoring the fact trade school also costs money). Also, high school graduates are usually the ones making the 6 figure salary. Even doctors aren't making the big dollars anymore. Only the trades (and I think a tattoo artist).
no really. that's the majority of this thread.
Oh, and making your kid take on thousands of dollars worth of debt teaches them "Character" and makes them really independent. Because you know, signing a piece of paper = independence.
Oh and every single one of these students are going to get full rides to top schools cause you know, scholarships like that are handed out like free candy.
So feel free to have multiple children, drop them out of your life when they turn 18 (they are "independent" in the eyes of the law anyways) and "hope" they do well (without actually doing anything to help them out).
If this is how the majority of Americans feel, no wonder America is going under.
If that is what you've gotten out of this thread, I'm unimpressed with the level of education you claim to have received thus far.
hey, according to most of the people here, college is a waste and you are better off in trade school (we are also ignoring the fact trade school also costs money). Also, high school graduates are usually the ones making the 6 figure salary. Even doctors aren't making the big dollars anymore. Only the trades (and I think a tattoo artist).
College graduates are usually the lazy ones who won't accomplish anything in their life. College = worthless.
no really. that's the majority of this thread.
Oh, and making your kid take on thousands of dollars worth of debt teaches them "Character" and makes them really independent. Because you know, signing a piece of paper = independence. Having parents who had enough forethought to save something for their kid's future = kid is a loser. Kid should be taking on loans and working full time at a min wage job to build character and appreciate college degree. Appreciation only comes this way.
Oh and every single one of these students are going to get full rides to top schools cause you know, scholarships like that are handed out like free candy.
So feel free to have multiple children, drop them out of your life when they turn 18 (they are "independent" in the eyes of the law anyways) and "hope" they do well (without actually doing anything to help them out).
If this is how the majority of Americans feel, no wonder America is going under.
Here's the thing about trade school, it is good IF you are looking to get smart for your work. If you are looking to just expanding your mind or be a teacher, college is good at that. Sadly, these two things are deemed mutually exclusive according to the education system we currently have. College doesn't give most majors experience, just theory while trade school does but in it's particular skill.
Isn't that the truth? I am from Joe Namath's hometown, a steel mill town in Pennsylvania. There is a story in one of his biographies about how his father took home down to the mill where he worked, showed him around and said "I didn't want this for you". Now you could make good money in the mills, but it was hard, hard work. And those jobs are all gone now.
My father was a tool and die maker and he always told us that we should go to college so we didn't have to come home dirty and exhausted like he did. My father made ok money but he worked really hard.
How on earth do you have a guaranteed paid job for something that is 7mths out?
Lots of college kids get jobs that far out. My son has a job (paying internship) lined up for next summer already. His girlfriend is graduating in May and she already has a job that will start after she graduates.
I think the takeaway from this thread shouldn't be whether it's worth it to go to college, the value of college or not, or even the original thread title of whether a parent should or shouldn't help kids with college... Really the reason the OP ruffles feathers is the whole looking down her nose at the many people from many walks of life who aren't pure and perfect and priviledged. OP acts as though if everyone can't be upper, upper crust high society rich, they should not breed at all. Heck, why shouldn't they just all go kill themselves and spare the world their lower class filth. Ugh. Poor people.
That's how you come off, seriously.
Trades are a hard life, and doctors never struggle. Riggght.... Ever heard about the surgeons who work a few days straight through on their feet with no sleep? The road to success as a doctor or lawyer has got its own challenges. It's not just "mummy and daddy pay for a degree and now I spend most of my life on a yacht! Yay, success!" That is some delusional thinking right there. And for some people, having their own business, being their own boss, whether that's owning a law firm, being a CEO, or simply owning their own restaurant or auto shop or plumbing business, that IS THE AMERICAN DREAM. And as many have said...what on earth would you do without these people?? A "hard life"...that is very relative. What's a "hard life" for one person is a golden dream to the next, and who are you to judge?
I'm speaking to poster Katiana as much as the OP at this point, too...
Anti-intellectualism LOL! What, just because one acknowledges that it is possible to find success without a degree? I am aware that the statistics will indicate that a degree brings a higher probability of higher wages. But it's important for people to comprehend that the term success is highly subjective. Shockingly not everyone is interested in being a millionaire (I'm not even kidding.) My dream of a perfect future isn't the same as yours, I'd guarantee it. I would outright reject any opportunity to be you, the OP, or anyone but myself. My dream is doing art for a living, building sculptural furniture with my hands and hanging out with creative people as often as possible. A modest dwelling would be just fine for me. A financial advisor I'm rather fond of likes to say "People first, then money, then things." It's actually a very fulfilling way to live.
But I digress...more to the point in response to this quoted post... I have known some really brilliant and intellectual people who don't have degrees. Did you know that you can teach yourself things, research things, and learn things, and never get a piece of paper to prove you did it, just because you want to? And I've known people I attended college with, and people who have advanced degrees, that pretty much just memorized data long enough to regurgitate it, yet were not really brilliantly intellectual individuals. To say that a degree isn't the end-all, be-all requirement for "success" is not the same as being anti-intellectual.
Again, my Mom has her Master's, and is unemployable and not as intellectual as I am, and I didn't finish my degree. If there's something I want to know, I research it and learn. She's the one coming to me for help. The world is full of people with different stories. OP (and 1 or 2 others) don't seem to understand or appreciate that fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by riaelise
Wow.
There are many unintelligent people who have college degrees as well. Please don't tell me you actually grade someone's intelligence based on whether they have a degree or not. Both my husband and I were in honors classes throughout high school and tested well. I ranked #3 in my school and got accepted to several top tier schools. He was in a magnet high school and middle school. He was accepted at UT-Austin's computer science program. He dropped out a little over halfway in because he was depressed over his grandfather's early death and didn't have the fire to go on any longer. He started out at zero (mail room) at his first job and worked his way to better positions as they became available. One door opened another and now he's at a Fortune 500 company, being groomed to be a PM. Are you saying that because he doesn't have "the paper", he's less intelligent? If you're smart, you're smart and the right people know it. By his academic record through high school and college, one could see that he was intelligent. For his own reasons, he didn't finish and decided to enter the workforce. He may indeed be an outlier but actually uses his experiences to help other young people. That they can do something with their lives even without a degree and it doesn't involve trades. Though I must say, after paying our contractors 25-40/hr. they aren't doing badly at all. Good tradespeople have clients lined up waiting for their services.
First of all, I'll cut the OP a little slack for being young. I give her props for remaining a virgin, too, and for doing well enough in college to be offered a job months before her graduation. Those of you who think this doesn't happen don't know how these things work and are showing your own lack of knowledge.
@Sonic_Spork-I may be making a giant leap here, but I think when people talk about "struggling" they're referring more to financial struggles than to working long hours, although the days of medical residents working days on end w/o sleep are long gone. Physicians in private practice, particularly in some specialties, work more hours than people with typical 9-5 jobs, but again, the days of physicians being on call 24/7/365 are long gone. Even doctors in private practice usually share call with other doctors.
I'm fine that you reject any opportunity to be me. You'd have to get rid of that chip on your shoulder.
As for rialese, some one of these days your/your spouse's successes in middle school/high school aren't going to matter. You, too, have a chip on your shoulder. I said nothing about your husband. Hopefully, your husband isn't encouraging his mentees to forgo college. I have a nephew (by marriage) who dropped out of trade school after a few months to go to work in a car wash. At the time I said "bring back the draft". The draft kept many of the men of my cohort in college, and at least they got degrees. Anyway, this nephew bounced along for the better part of 20 years, getting a new job that he "just loved" every few years. Finally, in his late 30s or early 40s, he found his niche in computer graphics. Then last year, the latest I heard was that he was going to go job hunting b/c there was no opportunity for advancement at his present job. I said to DH (who is related to this guy), of course there's no opportunity for advancement for him. He has no education beyond high school. Well, now he's finally talking about going back to school. Too bad it took him 25 years to figure that out.
Your contractors are probably not getting all the money you pay them as profit, and I'll remind you that $25/hr is only $50K/year.
To both of you- I do know some college graduates who don't seem to be the sharpest tools in the shed. I even know a few doctors in that category. The doctors I know aren't unintelligent as much as seemingly uneducated in certain areas. One I can think of had never heard the term "Merry Widow", or "the shoemaker's children never have shoes" and the word "tryst", for a few examples. I also know some people, mostly women "of a certain age" who are quite intelligent and yet didn't finish college or didn't attend at all. Back in the day, girls/women were not always encouraged to go to college, especially if their parents didn't go. But the proportion of unintelligent college graduates I know is very small.
I will say what a lot of others have said, but there is no reason a parent should feel obligated to pay for their kids' college! It's not a matter of not being prepared to be a parent, college is expensive, most middle class people would have to decide between having no retirement fund or putting their kid through school. If you "do the right thing" and put the kid through college, what do they do when getting old enough that they have to retire with no funds saved?
I put myself through college with student loans and a part time job to pay everyday expenses- it's not that hard to do. It just means having to buckle down instead of going off to campus for 4 years to have no cares in the world and party hard every night as a lot of college kids seem to want to do. It does them some good to learn responsibility, to learn the value of every dollar they have to spend (even if it's on student loans to pay back later) per credit. Of course if I had lots of money I would put my kid through college, too, I am not against it for people that have the means- but it's just not possible for a LOT of people, and that's not a bad thing.
$375 an hour. I asked. Excluding initial consultation fee when he decides if he wants to work with the potential client. He said that's a rough average as he charges less if he meets someone with good karma and not a lot of money. And he doesn't sit in a cubicle all day. Woo hoo.
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