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You're gambling that you own child will remember things as you do, and not share the memories of adults who resent their parents for using corporal punishment. You have a 50-50 chance of being right, at best.
I'm not running a study, just a family, so don't expect any scientific data. But I will maintain that if one parent can deal with misbehavior without spanking, then it is possible for all to do so. And I ask again how a child too young to reason with is supposed to understand why you are hitting him.
And this is the crux of the matter... Your odds of raising a well rounded child are no greater than my own by not spanking.
You may not have any scientific data, yours is all anecdotal... and so is mine, and all the other parents who spank their kids. The difference here is that I'm not bad mouthing you or your parenting style for not spanking, even though I personally think your children will not learn discipline and respect for their elders as well as mine. That's my opinion. However, parents who don't spank are quick to say that parents who do spank are horrible parents, "unenlightened," or a million other disparaging words, when in fact they speak without any hard evidence that cannot be refuted. That's not a particular lesson I want my kids to learn, either... believing in something without a shred of evidence.
And so I'll answer your question, though it really shouldn't even require a response.
It's instinctual. Every person, every animal, at an early age, learn through external stimulus. (Now, that's a fact if you care to look it up.) It's why babies try to put everything in their mouths and touch everything. That is how they learn, by using their senses, because they don't have the cognitive ability to understand the nuances of their environment.
So, if a baby touches something hot, what happens? They'll scream and cry. Then they'll probably do it again, until they associate an external stimulus, pain, with their action, and they'll stop doing it.
Spanking is no different. You are introducing an external stimulus to correspond to an action that a child should not be taking.
This is really behavioral science 101 here. We humans like to think we're so evolved, but at an early age, we're no better in cognitive function than a puppy, in fact, they progress even faster than we do, until they peak at about the cognitive function of a 2-3 yr old. If you want a puppy to stop peeing the carpet, what do you do? Give them a spank and hold their nose to their mess. Seems to work pretty well, and my Golden doesn't seem like he's maladjusted. Nope, turned out just fine.
So for all you parents out there who do not spank... Good for you. I'm glad you found a system that works for you and your family. Judging from what I've seen from kids today who were never spanked though, with no respect or regard for authority figures, I think you're kidding yourselves long term.
So... You're admitting that any "proof" you post that spanking is harmful is no better than any proof I post regarding the other side. Let that sink in a bit.
You can disagree all you want. You want to make foolish straw man arguments like you are as a basis for not to spank, you're never going to come to a rational conclusion. You have NO IDEA how you would have turned out without spanking. There will never be a way to "prove" that you would have turned out better, or worse. But the FACT of the matter is, you turned out fine, and in your own words, are a decent, motivated, and successful individual.
What, did your parents fail you because you should have grown up to be even MORE successful, decent, and motivated if you hadn't been spanked? That's ridiculous.
Sounds very scientific.
Pretty closed minded, too.
It is incredibly stupid and narrow minded to say that anyone who manages to be decent, motivated, and successful " turned out OK." You have no idea what kind of emotional baggage people carry around. I wouldn't expect the product of spanking to sit in a fetal position for the rest of their lives. People suffer much greater abuse than spanking and turn out to be successful. That doesn't make it acceptable.
You lose, on all counts. I never hit a child OR a dog. My dogs(a Golden and a Lab) were crate trained, and given positive reinforcement for all other areas of training. Works just fine.
I kept my kids away from hot stoves. I'd just as soon not be the parental form of a hot stove, which is exactly what you advocate, a painful response to the action.
And, since my sons are young adults, with advance degrees and good jobs, I'm not too concerned that they suffered any benign neglect from our hands off parenting.
It is incredibly stupid and narrow minded to say that anyone who manages to be decent, motivated, and successful " turned out OK." You have no idea what kind of emotional baggage people carry around. I wouldn't expect the product of spanking to sit in a fetal position for the rest of their lives. People suffer much greater abuse than spanking and turn out to be successful. That doesn't make it acceptable.
LOL
By all means then, tell us what passes for "turning out ok" and how spanking has deprived these people of such an ability.
Nice touch with the name calling, btw. Thanks for proving my points for me, it's much less work.
You lose, on all counts. I never hit a child OR a dog. My dogs(a Golden and a Lab) were crate trained, and given positive reinforcement for all other areas of training. Works just fine.
I kept my kids away from hot stoves. I'd just as soon not be the parental form of a hot stove, which is exactly what you advocate, a painful response to the action.
And, since my sons are young adults, with advance degrees and good jobs, I'm not too concerned that they suffered any benign neglect from our hands off parenting.
I "lose"?
LOL
I'm sorry you thought this was some sort of competition. I'm not really concerned about you or your kids.
By all means then, tell us what passes for "turning out ok" and how spanking has deprived these people of such an ability.
Nice touch with the name calling, btw. Thanks for proving my points for me, it's much less work.
Personally, I want more for my kids than motivation and success. I want them to grow up truly well adjusted and happy, not just faking it like a lot of people. I already made my point. If you don't get it, that's not my fault.
My own three sons are my research. That's all I need to know you can raise children without physically hurting them.
Exactly. And those who claim to spank calmly after careful consideration are full of "it".
Julia was not saying it's ok, reread what she wrote. But your last paragraph is on target. Break the cycle.
I recognize she was saying the spankings her family dished out were not okay. I was referring to where she said had she been shown the right way to spank. I was letting her know there is no right way. She's right to think it's wrong. Period.
So, if a baby touches something hot, what happens? They'll scream and cry. Then they'll probably do it again, until they associate an external stimulus, pain, with their action, and they'll stop doing it.
Spanking is no different. You are introducing an external stimulus to correspond to an action that a child should not be taking.
This is really behavioral science 101 here. We humans like to think we're so evolved, but at an early age, we're no better in cognitive function than a puppy, in fact, they progress even faster than we do, until they peak at about the cognitive function of a 2-3 yr old. If you want a puppy to stop peeing the carpet, what do you do? Give them a spank and hold their nose to their mess. Seems to work pretty well, and my Golden doesn't seem like he's maladjusted. Nope, turned out just fine.
How do you know that a baby IS NOT evolved enough to understand instruction without corporeal punishment, but IS evolved enough to understand that they are getting spanked by their caretaker because they took some action with an non-associated object? That seems like a pretty convenient insight into baby psychology for a layman.
Puppies can't talk, can't really comprehend abstract thought, and never will. Dogs are not people and people are not dogs. The idea that they should be trained in the same way is a really bizarre anthropomorphism. Dogs certainly do not peak around the level of a 2-3 year old. If I tell the world's smartest dog to "go get me the yellow football from outside" they will wag their tail and give me a lick. At best, they'll run outside and bring back some random object. Most 18-month-old's will be able to understand the instructions and follow them 90% of the time or better.
I'd be very surprised if you could train the average dog some abstract concept, by beating them or otherwise, like not to bark while you are on the phone.
However, it's pretty clear many many people can teach their children abstract concepts--like don't turn on the stove--without inflicting physical pain every time the child does something wrong.
So... You're admitting that any "proof" you post that spanking is harmful is no better than any proof I post regarding the other side. Let that sink in a bit.
Yes, I am admitting that we can find "proof" to support any side of any argument. I still stand by what I say though. Four children, all different, one very headstrong, and we've managed to raise them to be amazing young people from toddler to teen currently without having to hit them. I'm not some child whisperer. I just learned how to be the best parent I can be. Surely you don't think that you aren't capable of getting the same results from your children by using methods that do not cause physical pain.
So for all you parents out there who do not spank... Good for you. I'm glad you found a system that works for you and your family. Judging from what I've seen from kids today who were never spanked though, with no respect or regard for authority figures, I think you're kidding yourselves long term.
You are referring to children of permissive parents. It drives me crazy that spanking parents always assume that if you don't spank you don't guide your children at all. SMH My children do make good choices for the most part. Some are still navigating because they are young...others are older and have shown they have good heads on their shoulders and what we are doing is working.
My children are so well mannered that things are constantly said to me about it from bystanders. Just this past weekend, my four children and I had traveled 6+ hours by car to visit family. The morning of our last day, we stayed around the hotel to go swimming. My oldest who is a teen was hanging with the toddler in the pool while the two middle ones were playing together when a man came over and asked me if they were my children. I said yes. He said your oldest is absolutely amazing with his little brother. I noticed it the moment I saw them. I thanked him and agreed he is a pretty amazing young man. Then I went and told my son what was said and told him how proud I was of him for the young man he is and that I hoped it made him feel proud of himself that others, even strangers, recognized it about him.
Our children have played sports since they were old enough to join the rec center teams. The lady who runs the rec center is an older lady who from the beginning has always told me how my children are the most polite children she's ever seen. She has told me repeatedly how refreshing it is because there are many times she will make a child use his/her manners before she gives them anything from the concession stand, but she never has to do that with any of my children.
I have had parents of my children's friends tell me how polite my children are when they are at their homes. They have told me repeatedly how not only are my children some of the most polite, but they are helpful, and how it never ceases to amaze them how every time they hear one of them on the phone with me, they NEVER hang up without telling me they love me.
I can't tell you how many messages I have gotten from teachers this past year telling me how much they were going to miss my children because of how sweet and well rounded they are. (I know they don't do this to every parent.)
Trust me, I am NOT worried about how my children are going to be when they grow up. I see it in them now and if they begin to teeter, I will make adjustments to my techniques just like I always have without going back to hitting to do so. You could do so as well, but it is obvious you don't think you can raise your children to be respectful, good members of society without hitting so until you do, nothing any of us can say will matter. I'm sure if you ever wanted to give positive parenting a try though, any of us would be willing to help and I'd bet you'd be surprised how wonderful your children would still be without the need for you to hit them.
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