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Well. you have gotten some good advice from parents, so here's some from a youngen (30) with little ones.. Let him come home, Tell him you WANT him to come home. And do yourself the favor, again just from my perspective ( I had a very overbearing mother when it came to making some wrong choices.. not saying your overbearing, just fillin ya in) Don't NAG about school or the gf. Say he moves in, abides by the rules for a while, then drops out of school-- You CANNOT control the situation, you can only control YOUR actions. Will you throw him out? Not a great idea since that could very well affect his well being.. all you can do is encourage him.. make it clear that if he drops out, he will have to take on x amount of hours a week and pay you ALOT more money..Yes he should pay back his debts. As far as the no friends in the house-- that sounds a little much. Remember, you want him to come home right? Sounds like this would be best for him at this point. You don't want to discourage it. Be supportive of his decisions and note when he makes an effort. It sounds like he has made some bad choices, but since he wants to come back, maybe he realizes them. Limit the days he can have over friends, and limit it to maybe one. Don't tell him you don't trust him, but come up with another reason for your choices. I also think you're right to dislike his gf-- but again, you can't control him. You can voice your opinion and show him the positive things he has going in his life. Bottom line, you cant do much about changing his life. All you can do is offer him as many opportunities as possible. It sounds like your on the right track-- just remember to give him positive or constructive critism, AND DONT NAG. The last thing you want at this point is to drive him away from your guidance. There is a line to cross though- just make sure he knows that.. : ) Good luck and I hope this helps
Wow. How ridiculous. I'm glad my parents didn't think like you. As a result they wound up with children who all (yes multiple) had full academic scholarships to college & were all on their own by 18. And yet if I EVER had an issue like this I know they would have moved heaven and earth to ensure I was taken care of financially and emotionally. I am so sick of people who dispense this tough love crap; that mentality never existed in my house. People don't do things to hurt themselves unless there is something seriously wrong. And the only people we can rely on in this world to care in such a self-sacrificing manner to ensure our well being, is our parents, which is the way it should be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
Okay. This is a relatively new phenomenon. Kids, after their initial brush with the Real World of Adulthood, run back to the parent's home to be cosseted by free food and free cable and--get this--No Homework.
Why? For a simple reason. You made life at home way too easy for him. To him, it was the Golden Age, the Elysian Fields, the Seven Cities of Cibola. The expectations were minimal, your love was limitless, and the rules were apparently lax. By your own description, you let him quit a job for no apparent good reason, footed the bill while he was unemployed, and have generally made excuses for his own boneheaded behavior. The fact that he actually had the nerve to ask if his girlfriend could come live with you says volumes--Namely, that your son has only the most tenuous grasp on what you consider to be acceptable and unacceptable behavior.
You fell down on your job as a parent. Because the parent of an adolescent should have only one objective: Increase the responsibility with every passing year until the adolescent, having to choose between staying at home and being dunked in boiling oil, asks "So, exactly how hot is that oil, anyway?"
So if he wants to move home, then you need to give him the worst of both worlds--All the rules imposed on children, along with all the responsibilities of adults. That means cleaning his room, cleaning the kitchen, mowing the lawn, doing the laundry, and everything else that's expected of a teenager PLUS ponying up to help pay the mortgage, the power, the groceries, and the automotive expenses. Plus you need to inflict new rules that retard his social development, such as no sleepovers and requiring a phone call if you're going to be out past midnight.
It's really a time-honored tradition among all the species. Lions kill cubs that tried to return to the pride. Sparrows get pushed out of the nest. Only human beings have started to defy evolution by telling their offspring, "Oh, shucks, return to the womb. It's okay!"
First thing's first. Low self esteem is a load of crap ginned up by the self-help industry. We do not get self-esteem in life by breathing. We get it by accomplishing things. By crossing things off life's To-Do List. By earning self-worth, not having it handed to you.
So if you ever hope to have your child become an adult (And 19 is adulthood), then he needs to understand the consequences of his own stupidity as an adult. Experience is the best teacher. In fact, it is the only teacher. If your son takes his lumps from a whacko girl at the age of 19, then he'll learn from it. So cut him loose, wish him well, sell the house, and move on. Because, unless he has a drug problem, you've done whatever you could as a parent. Your time is over. It's now up to him to grow up and be a man. And nothing you say to him will change him one way or another.
Harsh, my foot. If she had been a little harsher with her son earlier on, they wouldn't be in this collective pickle in the first place. She already said that she made excuses for him when he quit a job, and then handed him a bunch of money with which to buy Christmas presents. My God, how indulgent is that?
Don't get me wrong. I have three children. I love them. No, I'm devoted to them. But the worst thing you can do to a child is to cripple him by making his life easy.
She and her son need a little tough love.
Ummm cpg... before you go condemning and judging perhaps making sure you read accurately would help.
1. I did not encourage my son to quit a job for no good reason. He was working as a mechanic and getting paid flag rate only which means only per car they gave him to work on. He would go in and put 10 to 12 hour days and end up with 3-4 hours pay. This was happening repeatedly. He stuck it out for 11 months for job stability sake and when his last paychecks were so low they were under $125 for having put in 30+ hours of time in the shop. YES, I encouraged him that it was time to cut the losses and move on. This happened to be 2 weeks before Christmas, EVERYONE knows that when you start a new job at that time you get stuck working the holidays, so forgive his family for actually wanting to spend the holidays together.
2. I did have his expectations and responsibility increase as he got older. In fact he had a learners permit and was unable to drive on his own far longer than most or even required because I told him driving is a privilege and when YOU can pay YOUR OWN insurance, then and only then will you get your license. At 18 with the mechanic's job he was able to do so. Not only pay his car insurance but also pay his own car payment as NO ONE gave him his car. He paid for it. His entire paycheck went to car payment, car insurance, gas and to contribute to the home to cover phone and internet expenses. He couldn't afford much more.
3. He also had to wash his own clothes, clean up after himself and assisted me by driving his sister to and from school so I could focus on my studies as well as driving her to and from youth group at church so that I didn't have to use my gas to do so since he was going. This meant he left work, came home solely to pick her up before backtracking to go to church.
4. As for "handing him a bunch of money".... ummm what makes you think it was a bunch. To be exact and ease your assumption, I was giving each of my kids $150 each for christmas. I gave him 1/2 of his christmas money early because he was not working and didn't have the money to buy presents for his father, his grandmother, his great-grandmother, girl friend and her mother and 2 best friends. I told him not to get me anything. He did this short of his father's gift because his sister and him worked out something and gave a joint gift. SO if you consider advancing $75 of his christmas money a bunch of money, then guess that is what it is, I differ on that though. My point in saying what I said about that in the earlier post is that had I not advanced him that money he would not have been able to buy the "engagement ring" for the girl friend.
Lastly, I am far from an enabler or a crippler. When my son was diagnosed at the age of 9 with Inattentive type attention deficit disorder and a mild anxiety disorder, the doctor wanted to immediately place him on a drug. I said NO. I took a hands on approach and taught him to cope and manage the condition, not use it as a crutch or bandaid it with a pill. I NEVER allowed anyone, not even himself, to use it as an excuse for inappropriate or irresponsible behavior. In fact, up to this post I hadn't even mentioned this past diagnosis. Do not accuse me of crippling my son. I have done all I possibly can to raise him to be a man of honor, respect and integrity. I however can not make choices for him at this stage of the game, He is making his own and being a 19 hormonal young man, he is making them using the wrong ... well I'm sure you get the picture.
In case you didn't catch it in other posts, yes there were minor things here and there that I allowed to slide. I had my reasons for doing so. I still had an almost 19 year old at home that would ask me, hey mom do you think that on sunday after church i can go to the beach with some friends. Or, hey mom, i'm going to a party on Sat but its at X place and I may not be able to be back by curfew, can I get home later if I text you and let you know I'm okay.
Yeah, I felt all in all I had a good kid at home and sometimes did turn a blind eye when he was a little past curfew. If you go back and re-read my posts you will see that my problems with my son really began AFTER meeting this girl, not prior. He has been with her since 11-27-07, 3 months now. How does the behavior that he is demonstarting as a result of this relationship relate to my failing as a parent??????
You have 3 kids of your own? I sincerely pray no one ever judge you as harshly.
It sounds like you are trying very hard. I hope everything works out for you with your son for all of your sakes. Good Luck
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Originally Posted by mari4him
Ummm cpg... before you go condemning and judging perhaps making sure you read accurately would help.
1. I did not encourage my son to quit a job for no good reason. He was working as a mechanic and getting paid flag rate only which means only per car they gave him to work on. He would go in and put 10 to 12 hour days and end up with 3-4 hours pay. This was happening repeatedly. He stuck it out for 11 months for job stability sake and when his last paychecks were so low they were under $125 for having put in 30+ hours of time in the shop. YES, I encouraged him that it was time to cut the losses and move on. This happened to be 2 weeks before Christmas, EVERYONE knows that when you start a new job at that time you get stuck working the holidays, so forgive his family for actually wanting to spend the holidays together.
2. I did have his expectations and responsibility increase as he got older. In fact he had a learners permit and was unable to drive on his own far longer than most or even required because I told him driving is a privilege and when YOU can pay YOUR OWN insurance, then and only then will you get your license. At 18 with the mechanic's job he was able to do so. Not only pay his car insurance but also pay his own car payment as NO ONE gave him his car. He paid for it. His entire paycheck went to car payment, car insurance, gas and to contribute to the home to cover phone and internet expenses. He couldn't afford much more.
3. He also had to wash his own clothes, clean up after himself and assisted me by driving his sister to and from school so I could focus on my studies as well as driving her to and from youth group at church so that I didn't have to use my gas to do so since he was going. This meant he left work, came home solely to pick her up before backtracking to go to church.
4. As for "handing him a bunch of money".... ummm what makes you think it was a bunch. To be exact and ease your assumption, I was giving each of my kids $150 each for christmas. I gave him 1/2 of his christmas money early because he was not working and didn't have the money to buy presents for his father, his grandmother, his great-grandmother, girl friend and her mother and 2 best friends. I told him not to get me anything. He did this short of his father's gift because his sister and him worked out something and gave a joint gift. SO if you consider advancing $75 of his christmas money a bunch of money, then guess that is what it is, I differ on that though. My point in saying what I said about that in the earlier post is that had I not advanced him that money he would not have been able to buy the "engagement ring" for the girl friend.
Lastly, I am far from an enabler or a crippler. When my son was diagnosed at the age of 9 with Inattentive type attention deficit disorder and a mild anxiety disorder, the doctor wanted to immediately place him on a drug. I said NO. I took a hands on approach and taught him to cope and manage the condition, not use it as a crutch or bandaid it with a pill. I NEVER allowed anyone, not even himself, to use it as an excuse for inappropriate or irresponsible behavior. In fact, up to this post I hadn't even mentioned this past diagnosis. Do not accuse me of crippling my son. I have done all I possibly can to raise him to be a man of honor, respect and integrity. I however can not make choices for him at this stage of the game, He is making his own and being a 19 hormonal young man, he is making them using the wrong ... well I'm sure you get the picture.
In case you didn't catch it in other posts, yes there were minor things here and there that I allowed to slide. I had my reasons for doing so. I still had an almost 19 year old at home that would ask me, hey mom do you think that on sunday after church i can go to the beach with some friends. Or, hey mom, i'm going to a party on Sat but its at X place and I may not be able to be back by curfew, can I get home later if I text you and let you know I'm okay.
Yeah, I felt all in all I had a good kid at home and sometimes did turn a blind eye when he was a little past curfew. If you go back and re-read my posts you will see that my problems with my son really began AFTER meeting this girl, not prior. He has been with her since 11-27-07, 3 months now. How does the behavior that he is demonstarting as a result of this relationship relate to my failing as a parent??????
You have 3 kids of your own? I sincerely pray no one ever judge you as harshly.
I get what you're saying about needing tough love - I agree with you there. Totally. I honestly think that a life-time of indulging a child can lead to nothing good.
What I meant is that saying she fell down in her job as a parent is harsh - who out there is a perfect parent that can make that kind of judgment about another parent?
Plus, I was thinking of the collective 19 yrs - not just recently when his behavior seems to have thrown her for a loop.
She's got her hands full now & she DOES need to use tough love - I agree - her house, her rules. Hell. I'm 41 and married. When I'm at my parents' home, I still abide by the rules of their house. Mari should expect NO LESS from a 19 yr son who is making some very poor choices.
Thank you Sampaguita... This behavior did throw me for a loop. Trust me, neither my mother nor I expected that allowing him to have the holidays off of work would result in this major catastrophe. He has worked since he was 16 years old by choice, not need. He is a hard worker, always has been and has never been lazy. To think that waiting to the new year to get a new job was a good idea to allow him time with family, was not something so absolutely crazy considering a kid that likes to work and have his own money.
Thank you for thinking of the 19 years collectively, anyone and everyone that knows me has said... Mari, I am so sorry you do not deserve this, you have busted your butt to raise him right for this to happen. Yes, there is no perfect parent and I am the last one that would ever claim to be one. And, Yes, as parents we can do everything absolutely perfectly with no flaws and our children will still make their own choices and those choices may not always fall in line with what we feel is appropriate. Our children are individuals and as they grow they do begin to spread their wings and become their own person, not little clones of us doing everything exactly as I would. Shoot if he'd do that he'd be a living his life based on my experiences rather than making experiences of his own. This however does not mean that as a mom I don't worry or care. Tough love absolutely. But none the less Love and he is my son and always will be.
I am soooo totally with you. I am 38 years old and when I visit my mother, its her house and her rules... Add to the kicker on that one it used to be my house and my rules there. Why? Because when I was married to my kids dad we had a house and my mother had an apartment attached to the house. When I divorced, I could not afford the house on my own and would need my moms assistance with mortgage and stuff. Instead, the house was sold to her for what was owed and I moved with my kids to make a new start. A big motivator was because I wouldn't know how to do it. If my mom was paying a larger chunk of mortgage and household expenses, I'd feel it was her house. In turn, I would find it difficult to have to live like that while trying to raise my kids as well. I had to be able to make my rules and live as I saw fit in my home, raising my kids. Not that she and I would disagree much but still, too confusing. I needed to be on my own and not living by my mother's rules at that stage of the game.
Anyway, thank you again for coming to my defense. I did post in response to cpg. Take care and thanks for your thoughts as well. Much appreciated.
please do everything in your power to help him. you are the only mother he will ever have. do not let your need to be right blind you from having a merciful heart. we all make mistakes. remember how you held him as an infant and swore to protect him. good luck.
My advice is to welcome him back with open arms...and have reasonable rules he must follow. Make the rules short and very clear. Make sure he understands if the rules are broken he must leave. Make him sign these rules and give him a copy. I wouldn't make a huge deal of it....just the 4 or 5 things that must happen for him to enjoy the privilege of being an adult and living in your home. Good luck, you sound like a really good mother.
Wow. How ridiculous. I'm glad my parents didn't think like you. As a result they wound up with children who all (yes multiple) had full academic scholarships to college & were all on their own by 18. And yet if I EVER had an issue like this I know they would have moved heaven and earth to ensure I was taken care of financially and emotionally. I am so sick of people who dispense this tough love crap; that mentality never existed in my house. People don't do things to hurt themselves unless there is something seriously wrong. And the only people we can rely on in this world to care in such a self-sacrificing manner to ensure our well being, is our parents, which is the way it should be.
b75... Somehow I overlooked this post when I went to respond to cpg. I so agree with you in that people don't just set out to hurt themselves, or in this case to just ruin their lives, without some underlying reason or problem. I realize that as much as this girl has brought complete chaos and drama to our family, it is still choices HE is making. That does concern me. I agree with moving heaven and earth to try to help him. I will not enable him, but I will try to reach him and help him, even if that has to come from some other source right now other than myself. I am so not above seeking help from others.
I have contacted those that I know love and care about him. Including members of our old church prior to our moving. There are some that are simply praying day and night. Others that are speaking to him. To be, it matters not if I am the one that helps him see the light and snap out of this destructive path, or if it is someone else that helps him see that light. To me all that matters is that he see's it.
Currently he is staying at the girls father's house. The girl lives with her mother. I am in constant communication with the girls father and am very clear on his position. He is very clear on the problems his daughter has, her tactics and everything. He also has expressed that he see's something in my son and just wants to help him and doesn't want to see his life ruined because of his daughter. This arrangement is working out right now. He has rules there and according to the father he is respectful and abiding by the rules, which include a 10 pm curfew and the time he and the girl spend together is limited. He is cleaning up after himself and contributing to his keep there, while he looks for a job, by doing things at the house like caring for the lawn etc. When the father told me how he does these things without complaint, I simply expressed gratitude for him allowing my son to stay there and explained that his parenting style and mine are extremely similar and my son feels comfortable there because he is used to that structure. The only difference is that right now, while he can accept that structure because he is living in someone elses house, he can not being in my house because that makes him feel as little boy because I am mom. Thats the difference right now. His father agreed that was pretty much his daughters doing by putting in his head that being 19 and abiding by my rules makes him a mama's boy rather than a young man.
I've never been a proponent of the tough love more than anything because I never thought I'd have to use it. I'm not sure I even believe it at the level that some do. I don't believe the right thing to do in situations like this is to apply a tough love that includes turning your back on your child when they are lost and making decisions that can ruin their lives. I also don't believe in it if it includes closing doors and writing them off while cutting all ties. That to me seems as just trying to eliminate the problem and go about your life. I can't do that. I can apply a tough love, if that is what its called, at a level that I can live with. That is one that says.. no that behavior is not acceptable, these are my standards and expectations, while I may not always agree with your decisions or choices, I will always love you but because I love you, I will tell you when you are doing something wrong just as easily as I will when you are doing something right.
Just last night I texted him to say I was proud of him. Why, because of receiving a follow up letter from the school stating that he brought his GPA up from 1.9 to 2.03. Perhaps this is not a big deal, but considering he was told he needed to bring his GPA to above 2.0 as well as obtain the 3 credits to graduate, and he has done this now in about 1 weeks time. Yes it is a big deal and a start that needed to be acknowledged and in the midst of all he knows, because he knows, that he is doing wrong, he needs to hear of something he is doing right. I can do stuff like this and still stand my ground that home is home and home has rules and standards that must be adhered to.
I believe as you, that in this world the people you can rely on most is your parents, and meaning no offense to father's at all because I have the utmost respect for the good dads out there, but mostly your mother. If a mother completely turns her back on her child and shuts the door, that child may feel they've really blown it and what or who do they really have now or count on. My son has to know that I will stand by him, I will love him to no ends and I will be there to "help" pick up the pieces when all is said and done, I will not however applaud wrong behavior, nor will I enable it by provide silent condoning and not point out that the path he's heading on is full of pitfalls. To do so, in my mind, is not being a mother. He has enough friends that will sit by and watch him self-destruct. I can not do that anymore than I can bend over backwards and lower standards and expectations thus confusing him more by now questioning where I stand on these issues.
Well. you have gotten some good advice from parents, so here's some from a youngen (30) with little ones.. Let him come home, Tell him you WANT him to come home. And do yourself the favor, again just from my perspective ( I had a very overbearing mother when it came to making some wrong choices.. not saying your overbearing, just fillin ya in) Don't NAG about school or the gf. Say he moves in, abides by the rules for a while, then drops out of school-- You CANNOT control the situation, you can only control YOUR actions. Will you throw him out? Not a great idea since that could very well affect his well being.. all you can do is encourage him.. make it clear that if he drops out, he will have to take on x amount of hours a week and pay you ALOT more money..Yes he should pay back his debts. As far as the no friends in the house-- that sounds a little much. Remember, you want him to come home right? Sounds like this would be best for him at this point. You don't want to discourage it. Be supportive of his decisions and note when he makes an effort. It sounds like he has made some bad choices, but since he wants to come back, maybe he realizes them. Limit the days he can have over friends, and limit it to maybe one. Don't tell him you don't trust him, but come up with another reason for your choices. I also think you're right to dislike his gf-- but again, you can't control him. You can voice your opinion and show him the positive things he has going in his life. Bottom line, you cant do much about changing his life. All you can do is offer him as many opportunities as possible. It sounds like your on the right track-- just remember to give him positive or constructive critism, AND DONT NAG. The last thing you want at this point is to drive him away from your guidance. There is a line to cross though- just make sure he knows that.. : ) Good luck and I hope this helps
Obbie, thank you for your post. I totally understand where you are coming from. I make an effort not to nag him about things, I did and will continue though to speak to him and guide him whenever I get a chance to because in the end, chances are he will remember those words he heard, even if he doesn't want to hear them right now. The one thing he will always be able to rely on is that mom always tried to guide him in the right direction. Like I told him and his gf, until the day that I take my last breath and perhaps even with my last breath, if I see you heading for a brick wall, I will say to you "watch out you're gonna hit that brick wall over there". I don't know how to be any other way.
I want to clarify something. I never said he could have "no" friends over. I simply said no one in my house without my approval or when I am not home. There are reasons for this as well. First, it goes to respecting that it is my house. Second, some of the friends he has, or shall I say they have, are questionable in my opinion. Third, I rent an apartment and have a lease that holds me responsible for what happens in my apartment, should something occur that should not occur, I can end up losing the roof over my daughter's head right now, this is not acceptable. Lastly, this girl is still considered a minor and he is an adult. That the law may be limited to some extent because she is 17 and he is 19... yeah, but none the less she is not emancipated nor is she an adult.
He knows I'd prefer him to come home and I've told him, my home is always his home and wherever I am is home. There is no question in his mind about that I am sure, however, by the same token he has to know that home is still the same home he has always known and that the rules and standards have not changed because of these circumstances. Right now in fact, mom, home and these standards may be the only sense of stability he knows. Its the only thing that he knows does not change with whatever direction the wind is blowing. As I said in a previous post somewhere, if its was right yesterday, it is right today and will be right tomorrow, likewise if it was wrong yesterday, it is still wrong today and will continue to be wrong tomorrow.
As for the trust issue. There are some very good reasons for this lack of trust that even go beyond whats been shared so far, as I said, I've probably just scratched the surface of whats transpired while being with this girl. He has to know that he has to rebuild trust. In order to know that he has to know that yes I don't trust him right now. However, the way I put it to him is.... "because of your actions and use of poor judgement, I can't trust you right now or just take your word for something, you are going to need to work at rebuilding that, I want to trust you but its a two way street and you have to do your part."
If this sounds wrong or harsh, I'm sorry but I don't know what else am I to do when after I changed the locks of my home, he and his gf broke into my house on a weekend that I was away, made themselves at home even on my bed, when I've had the police show up at my door looking for him, when he went missing for 3 days and turned up in another city with her, the list can go on to include a few other things but the bottom line is, while he is acting this irresponsible, no I can not trust his actions and he has to understand that this lack of trust is a direct result and consequence of his choices and action. If he doesn't understand that then there is nothing to work towards correcting and restoring.
You're post did help and I appreciate it very much. Reminds me to keep a check on the nagging. Make sure I state my point or what not but not constantly nag about it. I think I'm pretty good about that but I'll keep an eye on it. Thank you.
Mari
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