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Old 11-11-2017, 12:44 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
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Last night there was a disturbing documentary on c-section vs natural birth on TV.

They said that it has become a kind of fashion in several countries, for instance in Brazil, where more than 80% of women have a c-section, without there being any need. It is the default there, especially among middle and upper-class people. Their private health insurance doesn't pay for a natural birth, which costs a lot more than a c-section.

Just like with white vs brown bread, it seems that ironically the poor are actually better off in that respect as statistics say that babies born via c-section are clearly more likely to suffer from health issues later on, specifically with regards to their immune and respiratory systems. They explained how the stress and pain of natural birth leads to lots of important, complex processes (neurotransmitters, hormones etc.) in the mother that carry over to the baby. Also, when the baby doesn't have to pass the internal organs of the mother during birth, the baby is not subjected to the mother's bacteria, which however is important for the baby's immune system.

They also said that when the percentage of c-section births goes above 40% in a given society, precious knowledge and experience concerning natural birth starts to get lost. In Brazil a lot of midwives no longer know how to react to certain problems during a natural birth, some start to panic. To young midwives natural birth is the exception and they don't really know how to deal with it.

They said that in China superstition plays a big role. Parents want their babies to be born on certain dates (especially those with an 8 in them), so they often opt for c-section because they want to prevent their babies from being born on unlucky dates.

Of course there are some medical issues where c-section makes total sense, but they are the exception, not the rule. It seems that the latest view among doctors is that women should have natural births whenever possible. They showed an experienced doctor who did some touch stimulation of the baby in the womb, which after about 10 minutes caused the baby to turn into the correct birth position all by itself.


This map is a couple of years old, but shows the c-section mania around the world. Current numbers are even higher:
http://cdn3.chartsbin.com/chartimage...3e0af45e9b9496


This map shows the differences between the states of the US:
http://www.slate.com/content/dam/sla...mo-xlarge2.png

 
Old 11-11-2017, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,927 posts, read 59,984,705 times
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Why did you start this thread?
 
Old 11-11-2017, 03:32 PM
 
13,981 posts, read 25,968,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life View Post
Why did you start this thread?
Good question.

I don't doubt that in some societies c-sections are encouraged, but that has not been my experience here in the US. In fact, after two c-sections, my doctor was still willing to let me try a VBAC. Unfortunately, it was not successful, and I had a third section.

I do think mothers and doctors, and definitely insurance companies, still prefer natural childbirth in this country. But c-sections are not a cause for shame.
 
Old 11-11-2017, 03:42 PM
 
Location: New Yawk
9,196 posts, read 7,238,153 times
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Which documentary: The Business of Being Born? Silent Knife? Something from the Ina May Gaskin collection?
 
Old 11-11-2017, 03:47 PM
 
1,491 posts, read 379,625 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Good question.

I don't doubt that in some societies c-sections are encouraged, but that has not been my experience here in the US. In fact, after two c-sections, my doctor was still willing to let me try a VBAC. Unfortunately, it was not successful, and I had a third section.

I do think mothers and doctors, and definitely insurance companies, still prefer natural childbirth in this country. But c-sections are not a cause for shame.

Yes exactly. I had two c-sections, and I’m proud that I had my babies...no matter how they came to be on this earth. And I too wonder what is the point of a thread like this. Oh, and btw, it’s not “easy”. Many women use an epidural anyway during vaginal birth, then that too is “easy” because they don’t feel anything.
 
Old 11-11-2017, 03:53 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Good question.

I don't doubt that in some societies c-sections are encouraged, but that has not been my experience here in the US. In fact, after two c-sections, my doctor was still willing to let me try a VBAC. Unfortunately, it was not successful, and I had a third section.

I do think mothers and doctors, and definitely insurance companies, still prefer natural childbirth in this country. But c-sections are not a cause for shame.
As I said, I found the documentary disturbing. I always thought c-sections were for emergencies only, not as the default. Being a man, I haven't really had much to do with that topic, yet.

They showed one of those child-bearing factories in Rio de Janeiro, it has grown into a very efficient industry there. Not the only dubious development, Rio is also the world's center of plastic surgery.

When c-sections in fact hurt the health of the new earthling, they should be discouraged, except in emergencies. It is like with breast-feeding in my view. Formula is inferior, yet many women prefer that artificial way.

When you already had two c-sections, it is not really unusual that a normal birth did not work the third time. In China - now that they abandoned the 1-child marriage - they are trying to keep women from having a c-section with the first child as it can lead to all kinds of problems with the second birth.
 
Old 11-11-2017, 04:02 PM
 
13,981 posts, read 25,968,218 times
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In this country, c-sections ARE for emergencies only, at least, that's been my experience. And they are certainly not encouraged, but they neither are, nor should they be, discouraged. The health of the mother is important too OP. It isn't just about the baby.
 
Old 11-11-2017, 04:03 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms.Mathlete View Post
Which documentary: The Business of Being Born? Silent Knife? Something from the Ina May Gaskin collection?
It was this documentary:
C-SECTION CONTROVERSY
 
Old 11-11-2017, 04:05 PM
 
Location: The point of no return, er, NorCal
7,400 posts, read 6,374,503 times
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Are you referring to the the benefits of the microbiome via vaginal birth? The docu Microbirth delves into this.

and this publication:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3110651/

And some point to ways to assist with the "seeding" process for c-section births:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...ies-microbiome

https://www.newscientist.com/article...inal-bacteria/

As for the "easy way out" sanctimonious nonsense. It's a method of giving birth, and a preferred method in many situations, due to a host of factors from access to providers, insurance, hospital policies, a provider's scope of practice (some caregivers will attend twin and certain breech presentation births, but not all, especially if they're not trained in attending these births). No doubt routine interventions and practices contribute to the numbers of c-sections performed, but it's a stretch to say it's the "easy way out" when it's major surgery with its own set of risks and possible complications and longer recovery time.
 
Old 11-11-2017, 04:14 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
Reputation: 9728
Yes, microbiome was the term they used.


https://www.statnews.com/2015/12/01/...on-childbirth/

Here it says that the mere risk of law suits is one reason for the higher rate of c-sections in the US.
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