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My parents were divorced when I was four, my Dad died six months later and we were not "allowed" to even mention him. I spent many years crying myself to sleep as mommy dearest hoped we would forget him. At my first opportunity, she was the one who was forgotten. I can tell you, a four year doesn't understand what is going on or how to deal with it. The grown up should be providing comfort and not isolating the child. If talking helps then please let them talk or it could result in built up resentment.
DH and I had a brief discussion about this in passing today (after I started this thread). He indicated that his mom seemed generally fine talking about Grandpa in most contexts (e.g. "your dad had a pocket knife in the garage, it might be out there"), it just seems like something about my son bringing him up triggers the waterworks. I could play armchair psychologist all day, but a couple of my theories on why this might be is that our son bears an extremely strong resemblance to his father and grandfather (you'd never guess he was mine), and/or perhaps his youth is a reminder of her impending mortality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle
That's what made me wonder if the BIL is the one who has a problem with the loss and he assumes that Mom doesn't want to talk about Grandpa and is passing that along to everyone else. He may not know how to help her with her grief, so he just tries to shut everyone down.
I do think the brothers and mom should have a sit-down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty2011
Yep. There are some who see tears and don't recognize that crying is okay, or go to great lengths "not to upset mom", which often ends up being counterproductive.
I think there's something to this. Apparently BIL actually told my husband *not* to tell my son to not talk about Grandpa, because it's making a bigger deal out of it in his mind (my son) which is why he then brings it up. So I think we're on the same page now that we're not going to try to make this restriction anymore. What remains to be seen is if BIL can bring himself to just go with the flow for any future crying episodes.
If I say to you "DON'T THINK ABOUT ELEPHANTS!" now look what I've done.
Sounds like you're on the right track. If your son is empathetic to the feelings of others he has a right to understand his grandma is sad about grandpa being "gone" or whatever you're teaching him happens once a person dies.
If I say to you "DON'T THINK ABOUT ELEPHANTS!" now look what I've done.
LOL, exactly.
Funny you chose this example... we were watching Olympic figure skating and the commentator mentioned "elements" (common skating terminology). My son said "He said elephants!" Me: "No, he said 'elements'". Son: "No, ELEPHANTS." Sigh.
Your MIL and BIL brought out the photos correct? Perhaps that is what your MIL was so emotional over and not your son (who IMO should be able to talk about grandpa and how much he meant to him) and your BIL overreacted and blamed your son. Stop walking on eggshells. Yes, MIL will cry a little but your son can then give her a hug and let her know it's ok. I think the family needs to start talking more about grandpa and help mom through her crying so that every mention doesn't open the flood gates. You mention you haven't been around when this occurs so my guess is the sons (your husband and BIL) can't deal with mom crying <sigh>. They need to let her let it out and your son needs to hug grandma if she cries.
My spouse took son to visit Grandma (and BIL, who has pretty much always lived at home) this past weekend. He briefly instructed him a couple times in the car not to talk about Grandpa. He knows that Grandpa is gone, but that is the extent of it. That evening, they all spent some time looking through old family photos (so topic not off-limits) and everything was fine. However, within about an hour of arriving home yesterday, DH received a text from his BIL (who always types all caps, so just sharing the effect here =>) "WHAT HAPPENED?" and it went on to say that our son had gone nuts talking about Grandpa over and over and now Grandma was so upset she couldn't even go to church that morning. DH said he heard our son mention it a couple times but didn't think "going nuts" was an accurate description.
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What happened is that your son must be horribly confused at these mixed messages:
“Don’t talk about him!” .... Oh wait. We want to look at the albums now... ??
Additionally, I suspect that BIL is having some issues of his own.
And any 4 year old who “goes nuts” talking about Grandpa dying needs more time to talk & process; not less.
My 14 year old son is Autistic & my mom died last year in March. He has on several occasions ran up to random elderly people in public yelling “Please ... don’t DIE!” ...
I am so lucky that there are so many very nice, understanding older people where I live!
Your MIL and BIL brought out the photos correct? Perhaps that is what your MIL was so emotional over and not your son (who IMO should be able to talk about grandpa and how much he meant to him) and your BIL overreacted and blamed your son. Stop walking on eggshells. Yes, MIL will cry a little but your son can then give her a hug and let her know it's ok. I think the family needs to start talking more about grandpa and help mom through her crying so that every mention doesn't open the flood gates. You mention you haven't been around when this occurs so my guess is the sons (your husband and BIL) can't deal with mom crying <sigh>. They need to let her let it out and your son needs to hug grandma if she cries.
Good call. I like the "hug Grandma" idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coschristi
What happened is that your son must be horribly confused at these mixed messages:
“Don’t talk about him!” .... Oh wait. We want to look at the albums now... ??
Additionally, I suspect that BIL is having some issues of his own.
And any 4 year old who “goes nuts” talking about Grandpa dying needs more time to talk & process; not less.
Totally agree about mixed messages, though I learned today that the photo perusal happened after son went to bed. Also, fwiw, DH says "going nuts" was a complete mis-characterization, kid only mentioned it a couple times during that moment, so apparently this was BIL's slightly melodramatic phrasing.
Totally agree about mixed messages, though I learned today that the photo perusal happened after son went to bed. Also, fwiw, DH says "going nuts" was a complete mis-characterization, kid only mentioned it a couple times during that moment, so apparently this was BIL's slightly melodramatic phrasing.
It seems obvious that your BIL is dealing with his own anxiety about his mom and her grief.
With him living there, the dynamics are all different now that Dad is gone. He's probably (inadvertently) pushing off some of his anxiety into the other family members with all these rules about how people should act.
DH and I had a brief discussion about this in passing today (after I started this thread). He indicated that his mom seemed generally fine talking about Grandpa in most contexts (e.g. "your dad had a pocket knife in the garage, it might be out there"), it just seems like something about my son bringing him up triggers the waterworks. I could play armchair psychologist all day, but a couple of my theories on why this might be is that our son bears an extremely strong resemblance to his father and grandfather (you'd never guess he was mine), and/or perhaps his youth is a reminder of her impending mortality.
I think there's something to this. Apparently BIL actually told my husband *not* to tell my son to not talk about Grandpa, because it's making a bigger deal out of it in his mind (my son) which is why he then brings it up. So I think we're on the same page now that we're not going to try to make this restriction anymore. What remains to be seen is if BIL can bring himself to just go with the flow for any future crying episodes.
It is quite possible that when your son mentions grandpa it causes more tears for grandma because she is sad that your son's memory of grandpa ends at age 4. That is pretty young, and likely that as he grows older may not remember hardly anything about his grandpa. My husband died when our kids were 17, 12, 5, and 3. I still tear up a bit when my youngest two mention their dad, and it has been years. I do this because I feel so bad that they don't get the opportunity to know what a wonderful dad he was. There is no way I would want them to stop talking about him just because I tear up a little. It is not healthy for your son, or grandma to avoid topics that make them uncomfortable.
My dad died almost a year and a half ago. My younger 2 are will be soon 6 and 4 yo. We encourage them to talk about it if my dad pops in their mind. The reality is, they're going to grow up and soon lose a lot of those memories. That's a sadder fact for me. I would like to think talking about it now will least give a touch more of a chance they'd remember.
Teaching your son to not bring up grandpa brings a strange mixture, but he is definitely going to have it marked in his head that sort of thing isn't to be discussed and that crying even a bit is not natural nor the right action to do. Your BIL is also being weird about this, but use it to open the door to discussion-- with the MIL, not BIL.
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