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Now its like a status symbol to get them out no matter whos around, in the most packed parks and places... everyone wants to be a boob suffragette it seems.. would you get your boob out if it was itchy or warm , no of course you wouldnt.. and I dont go with the its natural and what boobs are made for. People stare, men stare , they cant help it.. I dont want to see a big saggy mammary while Im eating in a restaurant, no thank you... now its getting like Gay Pride only its the Tit parade..
I was born and raised in the US. And my 96 year old great aunt is the one who told me that she doesn't understand why it is such a big deal and that back in her day, everyone did it wherever(no formula) and no one thought twice about it. And she was born and still lives in a small Pennsylvania town.
How ignorant to assume that the only foreign countries where women regularly breastfeed openly are "third world." Ever been to France? England? Switzerland? Brazil? Italy? Heck I actually saw a woman breastfeeding in a Catholic church in Italy during mass and no one even cared. Educate yourself before you start enlightening everyone else.
there is no need to get defensive, or throw around insults...I am far from ignorant and neither was my mother or grandmother.
As I said in my post before....I lived in a very small town, IN PA, and I'm certain, there were people who felt the same way my mother and grand-mother felt, not to mention other young women in our town. And yes, my mother and grandmother were Catholic! My friends all covered up when in public or they got up and walked away to feed. So what? That was and still is their belief.
It isn't a question about breast feeding, never was...and I'm going to say this again...we all used a diaper when we breast fed, and covered up...that's all....and all my friends did as well, unless we were in the privacy of our homes of course, and our husbands were not around. It's all about how we were raised, and what our parents personal cultures were. And let me tell you this, some of us got together with our babies for an afternoon, and if a baby needed to be fed, some of those girls covered up, still, and some did not. So what...??"????
and I'm saying this again, stop with the personal insults...if you don't like what I believe in, that's fine, but to insult someone, like you have here is just wrong...being nasty with your words, doesn't accomplish a thing, all it shows is how angry and nasty people can be. No one is saying your wrong....please understand that....
Take what you wish and leave the rest...in other words, allow others their thoughts on the subject...which is all this is, just a subject we're discussing. No need to become angry or insulted.
Last edited by cremebrulee; 07-25-2018 at 04:23 AM..
monumentus Would not bother me. In this often violent and hard world the last thing that I am going to worry about is my child seeing displays of affection.
However I _have_ seen such things happening in areas where there were many children. You know what I could not find when it happened? I could not find a single child even taking a blind bit of notice in the first place.
The number of adults who project _their own_ hang ups onto children to validate those hang ups is obscene. Most of the time the children are not only not bothered by the thing in question - they blatantly do not even notice the damn thing in the first place.
displays of affection is one thing....I'm talking about a whole different venue...and again, not wanting my son to view some thing like what happened to us on a beach, is not a hang up, it is however, personal preference. You want your kids to watch people making out and almost getting it on in public, fine. I don't care, but I'll get up and move, my child doesn't have to see that. And believe me, I'm very open about sex...so...
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Some children do not feed that way quite simply. Suddenly having a cover thrown over their head can be unsettling for them. As it would be for you if just as you were to set into your meal someone threw a blanket over you.
We're not talking about throwing a blanket over their heads, we're talking about using a diaper...which we all used, except me, I didn't breast feed, but most of my friends did.
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A lot of breast feeding women are also very tired and emotional and stressed. A baby with a light cover thrown over it will often simply pull it off. Why should a woman - on top of all her other stresses - add that to their day? Constant battles and tug of wars with their child over a pointless and not required towel?
Maybe, maybe not, your assuming every baby is alike, a toddler, may, yes, but not a baby.
On top of this breast feeding can make the feeding area very sensitive on some women. It is not always a joyous occasion but can be a sensitive and even painful one. So having a settled and calm and still baby while feeding is ideal. Throwing things on it's head - for no reason at all - that can cause the baby to move and wriggle around will only exacerbate the woman's suffering. And for what? The hang ups and pointless moaning of others?
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Yes some people don't. Just as going up to perfectly normal breast feeding women and interrupting them and telling them to cover up for some spurious reason they invented to cover up their own hang ups.
you are welcome to call it what you like, but here is where your wrong, to us, and for us, covering up wasn't a hang up, it was just what we did...period.
No one really cares, what people out there do when they breast feed....personally in this case for the woman to walk up to the gal who was breast feeding made it an issue...then the girls who were breast feeding made it more of an issue, b/c they refused to comply with the wishes of the manager of the pool and the police officer.
This whole issue got way blown way apart, b/c of two stubborn women, with two different ideas and cultures.
I hope it does change...but I'm going to say this one more time.
This thread is merely a discussion....that's all it is...nothing more, nothing less....no one is saying your wrong...no one is saying I'm wrong, it's what we at this present point in time, believe, period.
There is no need to be defensive or nasty with words while discussing this issue, or trying to make someone else feel bad for their beliefs....
And this is the main point I'm trying to make throughout this entire thread.
We're all human beings, we were all raised differently, by our parents who owned their own personal cultures. You want to feed your baby in public, without covering up, fine, do so...I don't care....me, I would cover up, so what? Why do you girls take such an insult, to this? This is exactly what is wrong with the world today...if I don't think and feel like you do, I'm a terrible person, and God forbid I walk the earth and breed, right?
This is wrong, to not be able to allow people their personal views...and to tear into another human being b/c we believe differently.
We can discuss this and bring forth our views, and agree to disagree, but to carry on a down right argument and insult people for their views, is not only silly, it does absolutely show a lack of awareness and respect for the other person's beliefs.
There is no right or wrong answer here..... It is absolutely silly and childish to take a thread like this personal b/c someone doesn't agree to the totality of your beliefs.
When did my opinion become so threatening, to the point of getting angry? Why can't we all just discuss an issue without becoming insulted. Do you think or believe b/c I disagree that I think your a terrible person. Do you think I'm going to walk away and start talking to all my friends about monumentus telling everyone, your a terrible person b/c of your beliefs, Heck no!!! I don't care what you believe, and what you believe isn't WRONG!
Just b/c I feel one way about a thing, and you feel another doesn't make you right and me wrong, or me right and you wrong.
Why can't you just allow others their own views...why is that so difficult?
If I were that young girl in the pool and a woman came over to me and asked me to please cover up, I would have, just to avoid a situation that escalated like it did here. Sure, I could fight and argue, fall down kicking and screaming, what does that accomplish. Nothing but what it does do, is escalate into something huge, causing people to take sides, and fight, which is how wars are started. To me, it ain't worth it. And you might feel it is, fine, ok, by me...doesn't mean your any less of a person b/c you don't agree with me.
Last edited by cremebrulee; 07-25-2018 at 04:29 AM..
Younger folks today only see their side and don't even consider how others may feel or perceive a situation. They lack moral responsibility and have a me me attitude.
Just because babies have to eat doesn't mean people can't have a little respect not only for themselves but others around them.
Again though you are inventing what constitutes "respect" to suit yourself and then refusing to brook any discussion on the validity of your own assumptions. Which itself is a blatant lack of respect ironically enough.
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Originally Posted by xray731
I breastfed my boys and never put myself front and center out in the public. I found a space that was private. This is just how the younger generation thinks today - doesn't mean your right and I'm wrong.
And that is great for you. That is what you chose to do and it worked for you and there is nothing at all wrong with that. But "respect" does not mean what you think it means. "Respect" entails recognising that the choice you describe making here is not therefore one that others are admonished or expected to make and take.
What "respect" certainly does not mean is "making the same choices I did" which is blatantly how you are choosing to treat the word here.
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Originally Posted by xray731
Younger folks today only see their side and don't even consider how others may feel or perceive a situation. They lack moral responsibility and have a me me attitude.
I find quite the opposite is going on here. Rather what is going on is more and more people recognise when it is - and is not - even required to "consider how others may feel or perceive". There are times when it is cogent to do that. There are times when it is not relevant at all. Breast feeding is one of the latter - but you are pretending it is the former.
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Originally Posted by xray731
No one needs to dress up a word like respect - it is what it is and lacking
Yet what is happening is the exact opposite. I am certainly not "dressing it up" in any way. Rather I am stripping away the nonsense the new age snow flake generation are trying to append to it.
Now its like a status symbol to get them out no matter whos around
No idea where you live to be experiencing that narrative but having travelled quite a lot of late - all over Europe and Russia especially - you are not describing anything I have seen anywhere.
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Originally Posted by dizzybint
People stare, men stare , they cant help it..
So what? Even if what you are saying here is true - so what? Just because some people choose to state that does not tell us what women should or should not be doing in relation to this thread topic. They can incorporate the staring into _their personal decision_ to breast feed in public or not. But beyond that I fail to see what you think your point here is.
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Originally Posted by dizzybint
I dont want to see a big saggy mammary while Im eating in a restaurant
Again so what? What should anyone else care what _you_ want to see or not see? It is comical that people like xray731 above are moaning about the "me me me" side of all this. When in fact it is people like you - not the breast feeding mothers - who are displaying the most blatant examples of it.
Get with this fact - it is not _about_ you in the first place. So stop making it about you. I do not care if you want to see a breast fed baby in a restaurant - or you want to see two gay men holding hands across a table in the restaurant - or if you want to see women in pants rather than a dress - or anything else. It simply. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. You.
Well then...WHAT is the issue? For you, it seems the sight of an uncovered breast feeding baby offends you.
No, that is not the issue....and for me, the sight of an uncovered breast, is also not an issue, nor does it offend me.
See, you refuse to understand....what I'm saying is, we covered up....I was a lot more embarrassed of my body, than most...even taking showers in gym. That was me, I dont' want to discuss if it was right or wrong to feel that way....I'm using this as an example. But in the same, don't take my feelings about being shy and use it against me, saying it's a hang up...yeah it was but it was who I was and still am today. In other words, don't hit me below the belt b/c I feel different and acted differently than you. Doesn't make me any less of a person, or those girls in the pool breast feeding.
We dont' all feel alike about our personal behaviors...right?
Some wouldn't breast feed b/c of an inconvenience it presents in public...b/c they don't want to bring their breast out in front of people.
Others chose to cover up with a diaper, and then you have the girls who feel no embarrassment at all and bring the whole breast out, and puts herself on display for all to see and doesn't care. Is she wrong, no, but I couldn't do that...
Sassy, it's what we've been raised to believe, that's all it's about...your not wrong, I'm not wrong....whatever works for you.
What we are expressing here are our thoughts and personal feelings about it....no need for anyone to get angry, or to be insulted, or use angry words against anyone else, b/c you don't feel the same way about it.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
It's all about personal preferences....that's all and the whole point of this discussion.
As far as I'm concerned, the two young ladies in the pool didn't do anything wrong, they were within their legal rights.
However......
I wouldn't have done it that way, and I don't care if I'd have been 17 or 70 years old, I know how I was and what I did and what my friends did.
there is no need to get defensive, or throw around insults...I am far from ignorant and neither was my mother or grandmother.
Well - yes - she was. You are painting the word "ignorant" as an insult. It is not. We are all ignorant - of something. Any many people in generations before us were ignorant of many things we now know today. Ignorance is a fact of life - not an insult.
But yes making assumptions about foreign countries that turn out to be false can validly be described as "ignorant". This is not an insult any more than calling a spade a spade is an insult. You can not insult someone by labelling them exactly what they demonstrably are. If they themselves _choose_ to be insulted by an accurate label - that is their own look out and their own issue and problem.
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee
No one is saying your wrong....please understand that....
Yet that is inherent in a lot of the things you have said. When you describe an action as you did for example as being done "out of common courtesy to others" then you imply - whether you intend to or not - that the opposite is NOT.
When you misuse (and then ignore later discussion about) the term "rights" and write something like "considerate of the rights of others" you are implying that the people not doing what _you_ would do are failing to do that. As if coming to a different conclusion about "others" actually means they are not being considerate of the rights of others at all.
So we can try and paint a pretty picture and claim that no one is saying others are "wrong" here but you would be failing to see how a lot of what you write is coming out _exactly_ as doing that on this thread. Which may not be your intention as you claim of course - but it is certainly the effect.
What is interesting though is that -
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Originally Posted by cremebrulee
allow others their thoughts on the subject...
- this is exactly what people disagreeing with you _are_ doing and recommending. What they are doing is pointing out that the person who asked the woman to cover up in the OP - and the staff member (who I hope is reprimanded and perhaps even prosecuted appropriately) who took it upon himself to invent his own rules rather than implement that of the location (if that is what happened) - are the ones failing to do that.
Because _they_ are the ones that over stepped that boundary from personal thoughts on a subject to trying to push _their_ standards on someone else. So take your otherwise wonderful advice - and offer it to the people who actually do need it instead.
Well - yes - she was. You are painting the word "ignorant" as an insult. It is not. We are all ignorant - of something. Any many people in generations before us were ignorant of many things we now know today. Ignorance is a fact of life - not an insult.
But yes making assumptions about foreign countries that turn out to be false can validly be described as "ignorant". This is not an insult any more than calling a spade a spade is an insult. You can not insult someone by labelling them exactly what they demonstrably are. If they themselves _choose_ to be insulted by an accurate label - that is their own look out and their own issue and problem. Is it a Kardashian thing... wouldnt be surprised.... with other celebs wanting to show the world they can and they will. https://thestir.cafemom.com/celebrit...lideshow_btn=2
Yet that is inherent in a lot of the things you have said. When you describe an action as you did for example as being done "out of common courtesy to others" then you imply - whether you intend to or not - that the opposite is NOT.
When you misuse (and then ignore later discussion about) the term "rights" and write something like "considerate of the rights of others" you are implying that the people not doing what _you_ would do are failing to do that. As if coming to a different conclusion about "others" actually means they are not being considerate of the rights of others at all.
So we can try and paint a pretty picture and claim that no one is saying others are "wrong" here but you would be failing to see how a lot of what you write is coming out _exactly_ as doing that on this thread. Which may not be your intention as you claim of course - but it is certainly the effect.
What is interesting though is that -
- this is exactly what people disagreeing with you _are_ doing and recommending. What they are doing is pointing out that the person who asked the woman to cover up in the OP - and the staff member (who I hope is reprimanded and perhaps even prosecuted appropriately) who took it upon himself to invent his own rules rather than implement that of the location (if that is what happened) - are the ones failing to do that.
Because _they_ are the ones that over stepped that boundary from personal thoughts on a subject to trying to push _their_ standards on someone else. So take your otherwise wonderful advice - and offer it to the people who actually do need it instead.
I thought standards were like morals.. seems not.. there is not a place on earth Id get my bare boobs out in public.. its a form of exhibitionism and " it ok to flaunt its my space" its not your space if it offends other people , now they might even have delivery rooms in rest rooms so we can all enjoy the fun...... what next. Its as if these mothers have invented being attached to their babies in public and want to show the world.. how its done.
Last edited by dizzybint; 07-25-2018 at 05:20 AM..
Well - yes - she was. You are painting the word "ignorant" as an insult. It is not. We are all ignorant - of something. Any many people in generations before us were ignorant of many things we now know today. Ignorance is a fact of life - not an insult.
But yes making assumptions about foreign countries that turn out to be false can validly be described as "ignorant". This is not an insult any more than calling a spade a spade is an insult. You can not insult someone by labelling them exactly what they demonstrably are. If they themselves _choose_ to be insulted by an accurate label - that is their own look out and their own issue and problem.
Yet that is inherent in a lot of the things you have said. When you describe an action as you did for example as being done "out of common courtesy to others" then you imply - whether you intend to or not - that the opposite is NOT.
When you misuse (and then ignore later discussion about) the term "rights" and write something like "considerate of the rights of others" you are implying that the people not doing what _you_ would do are failing to do that. As if coming to a different conclusion about "others" actually means they are not being considerate of the rights of others at all.
So we can try and paint a pretty picture and claim that no one is saying others are "wrong" here but you would be failing to see how a lot of what you write is coming out _exactly_ as doing that on this thread. Which may not be your intention as you claim of course - but it is certainly the effect.
What is interesting though is that -
- this is exactly what people disagreeing with you _are_ doing and recommending. What they are doing is pointing out that the person who asked the woman to cover up in the OP - and the staff member (who I hope is reprimanded and perhaps even prosecuted appropriately) who took it upon himself to invent his own rules rather than implement that of the location (if that is what happened) - are the ones failing to do that.
Because _they_ are the ones that over stepped that boundary from personal thoughts on a subject to trying to push _their_ standards on someone else. So take your otherwise wonderful advice - and offer it to the people who actually do need it instead.
Good lord, girl I don't care if you disagree with me....you aren't going to change my beliefs, just as I am not going to change yours...and that's ok...but you refuse to get it...
You are intent on being closed off to any other person's feelings on a subject but your own...and intent on dividing this into a wrong or right answer...and in doing so, there is nothing to discuss.
Hows this, your right and I'm wrong. Happy?
As long as you feel this way, your never going to get along in life or with society....there's got to be give and take, all within moderation, and in refusing to respect the feelings of others, and not to mention, with great animosity...and displaying anger and refusal to allow others. Even in leadership, you can't always be a winner...
allowance....understanding each of us, not only has our own beliefs about issues, but respecting others for them...even though you may not feel the same way.
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