Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't want to turn this thread into a debate so I was trying to avoid being specific but I see that isn't going to work. It's the Cub Scouts. The organization requires a belief in God and the oath begins "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God". My family are atheists and therefore can't honestly take the oath or be part of the organization. The thing is I think scouting can be a great activity for kids. I am conflicted because I can't in good conscience be part of the organization and I don't want to teach my children it is okay to lie. Or is it okay in this instance to tell my son to fudge the truth? He has no concept of what a god is at this point, it has never come up in conversation.
Think about it. You want your son to join an organization that has certain core beliefs, but you are 180 out of phase with those beliefs. Of course you do not fit in, why would you even consider it ? This would like me wanting to join the Jewish Church, and not willing to become a Jew.
If you do not believe in God, fine, but don't try to take part in group activities in an organization that has that as it's basis. BTW, why not let your son decide if HE wants to be an atheist , instead of forcing your beliefs on him. Maybe he will find that a belief in a higher entity is not all that bad.
At the age of 5 your child is not an atheist nor religious - his beliefs and understanding are not formed yet. His oath does not have to represent your personal beliefs because his do not have to match yours. You can have a conversation with your child about the oath, saying "To us it means we will do our best to do right by everyone, as we are not particularly religious. Also we do not think at the age of 5 you should have your mind made up about anything in terms of religion because you have a lifetime to think about it and learn as you go." You do not take the oath, your kid does, so your personal beliefs are irrelevant. Why make a mountain out of a molehill here? Let your kid have a good time and raise him to be a good person and use scouting as a means to promote his development as a good person and to benefit from those experiences. Let him sort out his beliefs himself in due time.
At the age of 5 he is an atheist. He doesn’t believe in any gods which makes him one by definition. I do want him to be open minded as I am. If I ever come across a convincing argument for a god my beliefs would likely change. Not holding my breath on that one though.
Think about it. You want your son to join an organization that has certain core beliefs, but you are 180 out of phase with those beliefs. Of course you do not fit in, why would you even consider it ? This would like me wanting to join the Jewish Church, and not willing to become a Jew.
If you do not believe in God, fine, but don't try to take part in group activities in an organization that has that as it's basis. BTW, why not let your son decide if HE wants to be an atheist , instead of forcing your beliefs on him. Maybe he will find that a belief in a higher entity is not all that bad.
My son can believe whatever he wants but I would prefer not exposing him to religious arguments before he reaches the age of reason. The church has thousands of years of experience when it comes to manipulation and shaping minds. This thread has made it very clear that this organization just isn’t going to work for us.
I’ve seen a number of comments suggesting a 5 year old can’t be an atheist. I’m willing to bet many of the folks making those comments wouldn’t bat an eye at someone claiming a 5 year old is Christian or Jewish.
My son can believe whatever he wants but I would prefer not exposing him to religious arguments before he reaches the age of reason. The church has thousands of years of experience when it comes to manipulation and shaping minds. This thread has made it very clear that this organization just isn’t going to work for us.
I’ve seen a number of comments suggesting a 5 year old can’t be an atheist. I’m willing to bet many of the folks making those comments wouldn’t bat an eye at someone claiming a 5 year old is Christian or Jewish.
What makes you say that? I was in cub scouts and boy scouts in several different troops. The only time that God came up is in the pledge. Its not like they make you sit down at any services or teach about God. The only thing that is taught in that aspect is being a good person and you shouldn't need God to be taught that.
I just question why they’re having a five year old say ANY oath. I remember in Girl Scouts I memorized it just to be able to get in. I doubt I had any inkling of what the words meant that I was saying. I remember I really liked it as a child, but scouts are kind of cringy as an adult.
I haven’t read through all 212 replies, but have you researched another option similar to Boy Scouts that that isn’t religious or at least has an oath that you’re comfortable with? I’d imagine your son mostly wants to do it because his friends are in it.
My son can believe whatever he wants but I would prefer not exposing him to religious arguments before he reaches the age of reason. The church has thousands of years of experience when it comes to manipulation and shaping minds. This thread has made it very clear that this organization just isn’t going to work for us.
I’ve seen a number of comments suggesting a 5 year old can’t be an atheist. I’m willing to bet many of the folks making those comments wouldn’t bat an eye at someone claiming a 5 year old is Christian or Jewish.
You've gotten several sound recommendations on how to make the organization work for you but you have ignored them all. I suggest you go back through the thread and read it again.
I'm sure you're a good dad and have your son's best interests at heart. But I believe that you are overthinking this and are making a big deal out of something that doesn't need to be a big deal. The obvious solution is to approach the pack leader and ask if your son can skip the oath, or say "community" instead of God. If the leader says "No," move on. But you don't seem willing to even try that.
My son can believe whatever he wants but I would prefer not exposing him to religious arguments before he reaches the age of reason. The church has thousands of years of experience when it comes to manipulation and shaping minds. This thread has made it very clear that this organization just isn’t going to work for us.
I’ve seen a number of comments suggesting a 5 year old can’t be an atheist. I’m willing to bet many of the folks making those comments wouldn’t bat an eye at someone claiming a 5 year old is Christian or Jewish.
I don't know how you protect him from being exposed to religions of all kinds. I'm sorry you had some sort of bad experience with a person tied to your previous religion. No need to really talk bad about religions in general.
My tact was to be very open and talk about all sorts of religions as my kids grew up, not hide it from them.
Since you said he is his own god, why do you care about the oath?
And actually at our church, 5 year olds may come to Sunday school and fun church events, but they make their own decision whether or not to become Christians as they get older.
If you want to truly be open minded, let your son decide. Don't deprive him of these wonderful opportunities. Nothing is perfect
I could be taking a stand on everything that I demand to align with my beliefs or refuse my child to get involved. pick and choose your battles. Taking stands can be done all day until the cows come home.
But yes, to reject God is to be your own God. Something I do not recommend.
The fact that your son recites the Pledge of Allegiance and you have no problem with that - "cuz he has to" - but he can't utter "God" in a Cub Scout oath is inconsistent with your beliefs. Again, this is all about you - you want him to go to public school and see the benefit of that - so the Pledge of Allegiance is fine - but he wants to join Cub Scouts and it's a terrible, horrible moral indignation/outrage.
What does your wife think about your stance on this?
Does your son know you are forbidding him to join and did you explain why?
How is a child an Atheist
Just let him say the damn oath, make friends and have fun
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
