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I certainly didn't mean a complete fail. It's a fail. As in, the parents didn't bother to have the child allergy tested. The parents didn't bother to send in the permission slip for the field trip. The parents didn't teach the child basic table manners.
In this case, the parents didn't teach the child that nudity in public is not the norm.
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"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 8 days ago)
35,631 posts, read 17,968,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somebodynew
Why is "the norm" so darned important?
On the surface, I agree with you. Being typical isn't important to me.
BUT. A child needs to know what the norm is, IMHO, so they can make a decision whether to deviate and risk others shunning them.
If you have no idea, for example, that it isn't the "norm" to wipe your mouth on the tablecloth or sing loudly while you're in a restaurant, you'll do it without knowing others perceive you as odd. And then, if you don't care if others perceive you as odd, you can proceed.
There are a lot of children who aren't taught basic social norms, and they're at a disadvantage to those who have been taught expected behavior.
Whether that seems the "best" way to arrange a human society is certainly up for debate, but for the time being, "it is what it is", as they say.
On the surface, I agree with you. Being typical isn't important to me.
BUT. A child needs to know what the norm is, IMHO, so they can make a decision whether to deviate and risk others shunning them.
If you have no idea, for example, that it isn't the "norm" to wipe your mouth on the tablecloth or sing loudly while you're in a restaurant, you'll do it without knowing others perceive you as odd. And then, if you don't care if others perceive you as odd, you can proceed.
I agree with this totally. And then there is also a lot of room to address what the norms are when it works best for that kid rather than say ... at age x.
Body secrecy is part of what leads to so much shame in our culture. Why shouldn't this girl be able to conveniently change right there? Could an "overweight" boy of the same age change without your critical eye? Did she seem at all uncomfortable or embarrassed? If not, why would we engender that in her, particularly if she is, as you said, "overweight," which already means she has likely suffered comments and looks. I think it's great unless she doesn't.
Read ClaraC's quote below. Kind of shocking that even needs to be explained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC
On the surface, I agree with you. Being typical isn't important to me.
BUT. A child needs to know what the norm is, IMHO, so they can make a decision whether to deviate and risk others shunning them.
If you have no idea, for example, that it isn't the "norm" to wipe your mouth on the tablecloth or sing loudly while you're in a restaurant, you'll do it without knowing others perceive you as odd. And then, if you don't care if others perceive you as odd, you can proceed.
There are a lot of children who aren't taught basic social norms, and they're at a disadvantage to those who have been taught expected behavior.
Whether that seems the "best" way to arrange a human society is certainly up for debate, but for the time being, "it is what it is", as they say.
I certainly didn't mean a complete fail. It's a fail. As in, the parents didn't bother to have the child allergy tested. The parents didn't bother to send in the permission slip for the field trip. The parents didn't teach the child basic table manners.
In this case, the parents didn't teach the child that nudity in public is not the norm.
I agree. In my example below my preschool relative has been taught that it is OK for her to run around naked and leave the bathroom door wide open in her own house but it is not OK at school, when shopping, at a friend's house, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626
A close relative of mine just turned three. Sometimes she runs around the house naked for ten minutes before she puts on her pajamas and sometimes she has the bathroom door wide open when going potty, however, sometimes she will actually say "I want privacy" when using the bathroom or changing clothes.
Yes, she actually uses the word "privacy" and her big brother and parents respect that.
If you have no idea, for example, that it isn't the "norm" to wipe your mouth on the tablecloth or sing loudly while you're in a restaurant, you'll do it without knowing others perceive you as odd. And then, if you don't care if others perceive you as odd, you can proceed.
Would anyone really care if a 6 year wiped their mouth on a tablecloth? I can't say I would consider that kid odd if I saw it. I don't even think I would care if an adult did it, I would just figure they got their napkin mixed up with the tablecloth.
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"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 8 days ago)
35,631 posts, read 17,968,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00
Would anyone really care if a 6 year wiped their mouth on a tablecloth? I can't say I would consider that kid odd if I saw it. I don't even think I would care if an adult did it, I would just figure they got their napkin mixed up with the tablecloth.
I would certainly care if my children did that. Speaking only for myself.
It wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'd realize they need to know that's not ok - and if they did that on Grandma's linen table cloth, she'd likely have to send it out to be cleaned.
That's what napkins are for. This isn't an arbitrary rule - once a kid wipes his face on a tablecloth, it needs to be replaced for the next meal.
Would anyone really care if a 6 year wiped their mouth on a tablecloth? I can't say I would consider that kid odd if I saw it. I don't even think I would care if an adult did it, I would just figure they got their napkin mixed up with the tablecloth.
What's a tablecloth? I wonder what age my kids were when they first came across one of those!
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I wonder what age my kids were when they first came across one of those!
