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Men who treat their wives and ex-wives like this, often wind up doing the same thing to their daughters. It usually starts as soon as the child exerts her own will, expresses her own opinion, certainly by mid-teens. Don't be surprised if the 12 yr old is back, pretty soon. Let her know that you love her and that she can come back home whenever she wants, no questions asked. I assume you are paying for her cell phone. Definitely keep it on your plan, and text her a loving message often, but not more than daily. Also send pictures of you and the younger two, not in a "look how much fun we're having without you" way, but in a loving way, of the three of you wanting to stay connected with her. Hopefully she'll want to come back home by the time that school starts. And if her stepmother is nice to her, don't be jealous - be grateful, and given the opportunity, thank her. If the stepmother is good to her, it's a very lucky thing for your daughter.
Don't badmouth your ex to the kids. Just don't say anything about him to your kids. Eventually, they will see him for who he is, especially if/when he turns on them, as these types of men usually do.
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"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 9 days ago)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner
This is what happened to me. Several death threats later I had no choice but to give him the children. I'm not saying do it, but the father of my children raised them and had the burden. I didn't have to pay him a dime because he lied to his attorney about income and resources. I spent my money on my kids the way I wanted to. I didn't have to hand it to him to be spent on frivolity (he was into that).
I have been in your shoes, however briefly and I can say, it's a losing battle. I really, really feel for you, because there's a long road ahead. My children are in their 30's now. I did not get to raise them. They turned out fine. Your daughter is at that sassy stage. Mine went through that. They will grow out of it.
Please see a counselor to get emotional and mental support. Join a womens' group, especially one that deals with survivors of domestic violence (verbal abuse is domestic violence).
My children know their father was a bully and an abuser, but they refuse to talk about it. They are very loyal to him because of his frail health and his big bank account.
Here's the thing, too. For people to watch a bully's behavior but he's not a bully to THEM, in fact, very loving to them, it's harder to fully feel the affect of what the bully is doing to the victim.
It doesn't look so bad. They could actually come to believe the things the bully was saying.
Men who treat their wives and ex-wives like this, often wind up doing the same thing to their daughters. It usually starts as soon as the child exerts her own will, expresses her own opinion, certainly by mid-teens. Don't be surprised if the 12 yr old is back, pretty soon. Let her know that you love her and that she can come back home whenever she wants, no questions asked. I assume you are paying for her cell phone. Definitely keep it on your plan, and text her a loving message often, but not more than daily. Also send pictures of you and the younger two, not in a "look how much fun we're having without you" way, but in a loving way, of the three of you wanting to stay connected with her. Hopefully she'll want to come back home by the time that school starts. And if her stepmother is nice to her, don't be jealous - be grateful, and given the opportunity, thank her. If the stepmother is good to her, it's a very lucky thing for your daughter.
Don't badmouth your ex to the kids. Just don't say anything about him to your kids. Eventually, they will see him for who he is, especially if/when he turns on them, as these types of men usually do.]
My daughter has never really exerted her own will so he has never treated her the way he treated me (and I have to say, his current wife from what I've seen).
Children will not necessarily eventually see the abuser for who they are. It depends upon circumstances.
It took becoming a parent myself to understand my own parents. My children do not have or want kids, so they may never get the perspective that comes with being a parent. As I said on another thread, it may take the abuser being completely out of the picture for a different perspective to be gained.
All you can do is be the bigger person. That takes a lot of will sometimes.
I need to rant. I apologize for this longwinded post but I am feeling so sad and frustrated right now that keeping everything bottled up inside me is getting to be too much. I used to talk to my mom but a while ago I realized how upsetting hearing it all is for her and it leaves her feeling so sad and frustrated too that I want to spare her that grief.
When my kids' dad and I were together, he constantly ridiculed me, called me names, talked down to me, told me to shut up and called me stupid. Very early in our relationships I wanted to leave him but the threats he made scared me to the extent I never tried to leave him. At the same time, I told myself that things would eventually get better, I clung to that hope, even if I didn't really believe it. Eventually, after me pleading with him for years to break up, with him never agreeing, he finally left me for another woman. I was free of the relationship but I was not free of him. He made it his mission to get custody of the kids. I was willing to give him a lot of time with the kids, two out of three weekends and many of the holidays (he had moved about 120km away so 50/50 would not have worked). I tried to be nice, tried to be accommodating because I wanted to avoid fighting. I signed up for a government program which gives couples separating 3 hours of mediation for free but he absolutely refused and because it was voluntary he had that choice.
I couldn't afford a deposit for a lawyer nor did I qualify for legal aid so I didn't take him to court for child support or to set the custody. He moved 6 hours away and 5 months later he requested a a visit with the kids. They went there and then he kept them and blocked my number on my phone. To get them back, I had to do a bunch of the legal paperwork myself and file for custody to get the kids back. He qualified for legal aid. I represented myself in court and then afterwards a lawyer who was there agreed (to my eternal gratefulness) to represent me in court. To my relief, I was granted primary custody (with him getting them one weekend per month and half the holidays) and a police-enforced custody order.
Since I got primary custody, he has tried other channels to get the kids, mainly by phoning Child & Family Services to report that I am abusive. I have had the police and social services at my door in the past 2 years fourteen times. He has gotten the kids to lie and say things about me. Luckily, my middle child told them those things didn't happen plus I had many character witnesses, including several members of his own family saying he is a liar and that I am a good parent. Eventually CFS somehow got him to back off. But he has now turned two of the kids completely against me and against every member of my family. They used to have a great relationship with my mom and brother but are now absolutely horrible to them. They call me names, yell at me, call me a pathetic loser who nobody likes, that I'm fat, ugly and a horrible mother. It has gotten to be so bad. I tried to deal with it, tried to keep the kids in line and it got to be where I just ended up crying alone in the basement every night and too often, I ended up crying in front of them because I couldn't keep it in. Recently, I actually phoned CFS asking if they knew of any resources I could access and they set me up with a family support worker to come in regularly and help get the kids' and my relationship on track. But the sessions just consist of them saying terrible things about me and telling the worker that I am a liar. They have such a completely different perspective then me and it a obvious things they say are things that their father told them about me. And it hurts so much that they believe them because I think I am a good parent. I really try to be. I try to cook good meals, I put them in various activities, I coach my youngest daughter's soccer team. I try to do fun things with them like go to a drive in movie or go on a couple big camping trips each summer.
I just feel so defeated, like I am fighting a losing battle. And I am tired all the time. Today I got up at 4am to clean the house for a couple hours so that it would be clean for the family support worker this evening. I went to work at 630am, ran home on my coffee break to take my 5-year-old to daycare and dropped my older two kids off at school. My oldest ended up leaving school at lunch. I had to track her down on my lunch break after the school phoned to tell me and she absolutely refused to go back, even after I took her cellphone for 5 days. I returned to work, without eating lunch. After work, I picked up my youngest and went home. I went downstairs to switch the laundry and my 5-year-old left the house and ran away. I went out to search for her and found her 4 blocks away playing in my brother's yard (they weren't home). Then I came back home, just in time for the sessions with the family support worker. She tried to get us to create a House Rules agreement but the kids were uncooperative and every time I spoke my daughter would make a mean comment about me (its like her dad was sitting beside me instead of her). As soon as the family support worker left, my daughter told me its all a waste of time because she and her sister don't want things to get better, she told me to just give up and let them live with her dad, that they don't like me because I'm an ugly loser and that their dad's girlfriend is a better mom and much more beautiful. I started crying and asking her why she hates me so much and she laughed. So did my second oldest daughter. The second oldest daughter's laugh really hurt me because yesterday we'd had such a good day together. It has been her birthday and I'd taken her to her soccer game, then took her out to supper, and then took her shopping and let her pick out her birthday present, just the two of us. I don't even know why I bother. I think my kids really don't love me or appreciate anything I do for them. They are 100% brainwashed by their dad. Am I just going to have to cave and let them go live with their dad, an awful person who I don't even think should be able to see his kids?
Ha! You call it caving, and I'd call it self-preservation. Let them go live with him. They're being brats. Let them be his problems for awhile.
I feel for you, OP, and I am so sorry. I wish I could offer you some advice, but I just don't have any, except to say that you NEED some support in the form of an objective FRIEND or relative you can confide in. You are in for a rough ride until your kids leave your home. However, I would advise against confiding in anyone who works for the government. I know from sad experience (although it finally ended okay) that if you confess to any type of social worker or school counselor about your problems in dealing with your kids, they might very well use it against you. And remember that Social Services agencies put the children's welfare ahead of everything else -- which they should.
I hope you will have the stamina to deal with your situation. I know it is VERY hard, but it has been a dozen years since I was living with two challenging children, and even though a few emotional scars remain, I am very happy and at peace now because I knew I did the best I could.
I'm sorry you're going through this with your kids...that is a tough situation.
However, as the saying goes, there are three sides to every story.
It sounds like you had primary custody when the two of you split. Perhaps he felt that he was treated unfairly, which may explain his behavior with CFS. I have no idea, just speculating, but if that's true (you having primary custody), perhaps if joint custody had been agreed to, maybe he would have acted differently.
I'm sorry you're going through this with your kids...that is a tough situation.
However, as the saying goes, there are three sides to every story.
It sounds like you had primary custody when the two of you split. Perhaps he felt that he was treated unfairly, which may explain his behavior with CFS. I have no idea, just speculating, but if that's true (you having primary custody), perhaps if joint custody had been agreed to, maybe he would have acted differently.
When we split up, I wanted to avoid going to court because I could not afford a lawyer. He moved put of the province to be with his girlfriend who was unable to bring her kids to this province due to custody restrictions. We had an informal arrangement. I let the kids go visit and he kept them and wouldn't give them back, wouldn't even let me talk to them on the phone. I filed the legal paperwork myself to get custody, a lawyer in the courtroom saw me representing myself and afterwards told me he'd do the rest of my case for a much lower fee and didn't require a deposit (he was actually a really good lawyer, well-known). My cousin and my ex's nephew served him with the court papers. A custody hearing was held and he was a no-show, claimed his phone hadn't been working so he couldn't phone in as he had been advised to do by his legal aid lawyer. The judge granted me primary custody. My ex did not get an unfair deal.
I need to rant. I apologize for this longwinded post but I am feeling so sad and frustrated right now that keeping everything bottled up inside me is getting to be too much. I used to talk to my mom but a while ago I realized how upsetting hearing it all is for her and it leaves her feeling so sad and frustrated too that I want to spare her that grief.
When my kids' dad and I were together, he constantly ridiculed me, called me names, talked down to me, told me to shut up and called me stupid. Very early in our relationships I wanted to leave him but the threats he made scared me to the extent I never tried to leave him. At the same time, I told myself that things would eventually get better, I clung to that hope, even if I didn't really believe it. Eventually, after me pleading with him for years to break up, with him never agreeing, he finally left me for another woman. I was free of the relationship but I was not free of him. He made it his mission to get custody of the kids. I was willing to give him a lot of time with the kids, two out of three weekends and many of the holidays (he had moved about 120km away so 50/50 would not have worked). I tried to be nice, tried to be accommodating because I wanted to avoid fighting. I signed up for a government program which gives couples separating 3 hours of mediation for free but he absolutely refused and because it was voluntary he had that choice.
I couldn't afford a deposit for a lawyer nor did I qualify for legal aid so I didn't take him to court for child support or to set the custody. He moved 6 hours away and 5 months later he requested a a visit with the kids. They went there and then he kept them and blocked my number on my phone. To get them back, I had to do a bunch of the legal paperwork myself and file for custody to get the kids back. He qualified for legal aid. I represented myself in court and then afterwards a lawyer who was there agreed (to my eternal gratefulness) to represent me in court. To my relief, I was granted primary custody (with him getting them one weekend per month and half the holidays) and a police-enforced custody order.
Since I got primary custody, he has tried other channels to get the kids, mainly by phoning Child & Family Services to report that I am abusive. I have had the police and social services at my door in the past 2 years fourteen times. He has gotten the kids to lie and say things about me. Luckily, my middle child told them those things didn't happen plus I had many character witnesses, including several members of his own family saying he is a liar and that I am a good parent. Eventually CFS somehow got him to back off. But he has now turned two of the kids completely against me and against every member of my family. They used to have a great relationship with my mom and brother but are now absolutely horrible to them. They call me names, yell at me, call me a pathetic loser who nobody likes, that I'm fat, ugly and a horrible mother. It has gotten to be so bad. I tried to deal with it, tried to keep the kids in line and it got to be where I just ended up crying alone in the basement every night and too often, I ended up crying in front of them because I couldn't keep it in. Recently, I actually phoned CFS asking if they knew of any resources I could access and they set me up with a family support worker to come in regularly and help get the kids' and my relationship on track. But the sessions just consist of them saying terrible things about me and telling the worker that I am a liar. They have such a completely different perspective then me and it a obvious things they say are things that their father told them about me. And it hurts so much that they believe them because I think I am a good parent. I really try to be. I try to cook good meals, I put them in various activities, I coach my youngest daughter's soccer team. I try to do fun things with them like go to a drive in movie or go on a couple big camping trips each summer.
I just feel so defeated, like I am fighting a losing battle. And I am tired all the time. Today I got up at 4am to clean the house for a couple hours so that it would be clean for the family support worker this evening. I went to work at 630am, ran home on my coffee break to take my 5-year-old to daycare and dropped my older two kids off at school. My oldest ended up leaving school at lunch. I had to track her down on my lunch break after the school phoned to tell me and she absolutely refused to go back, even after I took her cellphone for 5 days. I returned to work, without eating lunch. After work, I picked up my youngest and went home. I went downstairs to switch the laundry and my 5-year-old left the house and ran away. I went out to search for her and found her 4 blocks away playing in my brother's yard (they weren't home). Then I came back home, just in time for the sessions with the family support worker. She tried to get us to create a House Rules agreement but the kids were uncooperative and every time I spoke my daughter would make a mean comment about me (its like her dad was sitting beside me instead of her). As soon as the family support worker left, my daughter told me its all a waste of time because she and her sister don't want things to get better, she told me to just give up and let them live with her dad, that they don't like me because I'm an ugly loser and that their dad's girlfriend is a better mom and much more beautiful. I started crying and asking her why she hates me so much and she laughed. So did my second oldest daughter. The second oldest daughter's laugh really hurt me because yesterday we'd had such a good day together. It has been her birthday and I'd taken her to her soccer game, then took her out to supper, and then took her shopping and let her pick out her birthday present, just the two of us. I don't even know why I bother. I think my kids really don't love me or appreciate anything I do for them. They are 100% brainwashed by their dad. Am I just going to have to cave and let them go live with their dad, an awful person who I don't even think should be able to see his kids?
I think you need a life partner and your children need a good man to father them. It’s possible that your kids aren’t just brainwashed but are actually just a holes. You had kids with an a hole after all so it’s not unlikely that some or all of your kids might take after their father. Nature wins, always. It’s okay to not bend over backwards for your children if they don’t deserve it. That doesn’t make you a bad mother. Rewarding and enabling bad behavior kind of does. You need help with the kids and help with life in general but of course you don’t need another man who is going to treat you poorly. Work on your self confidence and start making yourself a priority. Some kids just vomit verbal diarrhea and their is nothing you can really do about it especially with the state on you. You are going to need to thicken your skin, stand firm in your knowledge of right and wrong and don’t be swayed by words and sentiments of hate. Just do the best you can and keep looking forward.
He probably doesn't want them. His current live-in squeeze most likely doesn't want them. He just has found that it is a great way to punish you and control you. Look how upset you are. I'll bet he is enjoying that.
Just call him up and tell him that you have decided that you want your freedom and that you are sending the kids to him full time. Then do it.
After they are gone, take yourself on a nice vacation and start dating. Take some fun classes.
Give him a couple of months and he will be trying to push the kids back on you for weekends and so that he can go and do fun stuff. Don't let him do it.
When he has the kids full time and not just on weekends he will have to stop being the over-indulgent hero. Give the kids a couple of years and they will be back, wanting their mother.
In the meantime, enjoy your life and enjoy the fact that your X is now tied down to child care and not enjoying all of his freedom that he expected when he divorced you.
Your kids will come back around eventually.
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