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So as I wander the internet with the hopes and dreams of someday moving from California to PA, I see houses listed in Johnstown for 9k.
Coming from Southern California I can barely buy a shoebox for 9k so I am wondering what the story is on these old homes.
First of all I can understand the obvious, depressed job market, older home, not updated features etc. etc. but are these types of homes in true drug and crime infested ghettos (compared to LA... keep that in mind, I already live in an area high in crime).
My husband insists that they are unlivable homes if they are going for that low of a price. I say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and they are "potential properties". Good bones but need lots of love.
So what gives? Am I a pollyanna about these homes or is he a California born and bred cynic?
Thanks for the info!
Last edited by toobusytoday; 10-14-2019 at 12:32 PM..
So as I wander the internet with the hopes and dreams of someday moving from California to PA, I see houses listed in Johnstown for 9k.
Coming from Southern California I can barely buy a shoebox for 9k so I am wondering what the story is on these old homes.
First of all I can understand the obvious, depressed job market, older home, not updated features etc. etc. but are these types of homes in true drug and crime infested ghettos (compared to LA... keep that in mind, I already live in an area high in crime).
My husband insists that they are unlivable homes if they are going for that low of a price. I say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and they are "potential properties". Good bones but need lots of love.
So what gives? Am I a pollyanna about these homes or is he a California born and bred cynic?
Thanks for the info!
For 9k it will definately need work, but it is feasible that it's actually livable. It is also feasible that it is a lost cause. The only way to tell is if you come and look at it or have a trusted contractor look at it. You could get it up to bare minimum code and maybe rent it out to a HUD family. Or, it could be in a bad neighborhood and it might get stripped the second you put improvements into it.
That being said, you can buy homes in Western Pennsylvania for super-cheap. A home that goes for 500k where you live would be 125k here. My friends all bought decent (but old) homes that needed some minor work in safe Pittsburgh neighborhoods for about $30,000.
This particular property is in East Conemaugh Valley and based on all the maps that I have looked at the house **seems** to be in a decent neighborhood.
It just boggles my mind that I could actually pay cash for a house, even if I would just use it for a vacation place. My family is originally from Johnstown (circa 1900's to late 1960's) and I am sure I would be able to get a lot of use out of it letting extended family members use it for a "trip back home".
I need to buddy up with someone who can actually drive by and see some of these places!
It just boggles my mind that I could actually pay cash for a house, even if I would just use it for a vacation place. My family is originally from Johnstown (circa 1900's to late 1960's) and I am sure I would be able to get a lot of use out of it letting extended family members use it for a "trip back home".
Johnstown is not exactly a hopping place to go vacation. To be honest, nowhere in western PA is. How would you feel leaving the thing sit unattended for long periods of time?
Also, for 9k you do realize that you will probably have to gut the thing don't you? However, it is quite possible that the "bones" of the house are in good working order.
I would be willing to do a whole house evaluation for a fee and also be willing to suggest some local contractors to rehabilitate the property for you - if you so desired.
Some of these property's might not actually be for sale, its what we call a teaser in the construction world. Where the real estate agent teases you into calling because you found a house so cheap. Then when you inquire they bait and switch. Either they will tell you that they just sold it yesterday or that it is no longer for sale or that it is in bad shape and you would be more interested in another property that they have for sale.
Being in the reno business for some 30 years now, from the time when I helped remodel my parents house in the 70's - 80's to when I started my own home 4 years ago, I can pretty much tell you what it will cost to reno a entire home.
For the most part, if it has studded walls - you are probably looking at $6000 + per a room to remodel + another $20,000 or more to do the outside.
So for a 4 bedroom house, that needs a new front porch, a new back porch, new windows, new roof, siding, bathrooms, kitchen, foundation work, basement improvements - you are probably looking at something like $150,000.00 by the time you are finished....
I bought a house 4 years ago, in a similar situation and remodeled two rooms and rewired the house and I have $36,000 into it - just in materials.
That was a total gut for 3 rooms and repairs to the heating system and wiring and a new roof + the cost of the house - which was only $4000.00
The local contractors in my area wants another $24,000 for a simple bathroom addition.
By the time I remodel the other 3 rooms and build a bathroom and put siding on the house and a new front porch, I am looking at another $70,000.00 - and that is for half a duplex.
You can buy a pretty nice house in my area for less than $100,000.00
The key is - as long as I do a little work at a time, I am not improving the value of my house and my taxes stays the same. In the end, my taxes might be $500 per a year where I live.
A $100,000 house where I live in the right township, might pay $6000+ per a year in taxes...
Take that times 30 years - which would probably be the maximum amount of time that I will live and that equals $180,000 in taxes that they will pay - vs $15,000 that I will pay for my house.
That $165,000 is like paying for your house twice.
Differences in costs - California vs western Pennsylvania.
In southern California - it is mostly warm. You might run the air conditioning 7 months out of the year. In Pennsylvania - it is cold 4 months out of the year - and you cannot leave a house with water in the pipes sit for that long of a period of time or else they would freeze and burst and you would have bigger problems on your hands.
IN California - you can walk out your front door and turn the air conditioner off and not worry that something bad is going to happen to your house if left unattended - because nothing freezes. In Pennsylvania - if you turn off the heat - even the building falls apart. It ruins the roof and the plaster in the walls and the paint and all sorts of things.
In Pennsylvania, when a young couple buys a house, where both the wife and the husband works and makes good money. They usually want a new house, one that they don't have to do a lot of work to. Then if they outgrow that house, they look for a bigger house to move to - where again it is new and they don't have to do anything except cut the grass. Then when they get old and the house gets too big for them, they look for another house that is smaller, where they have to do less maintenance.
Once those people retires - you get two kinds of people. The one kind remembers working and wants to work and maybe they buy a house where they can paint and do small odd jobs and keep the property up - where they get some sort of enjoyment out of keeping the place up and some sort of satisfaction out of making things look nice.
The other kind of person, doesn't want to work anymore and doesn't want to pay someone to do things for them. They just want to retire. They don't want to spend a dime and they don't want to do any improvements - all they want is a cheap place to live. So grandma and grandpa gets a house or maybe it is a house that they have lived in all of their lives. They do the bare minimum to the house to keep it going and even when the roof starts to leak and the windows falls apart, they refuse to spend their money - because after all - I'm going to die some day, and why spend my money on fixing this place up and then having the family members give it away after I die. I want to keep my money in my own pocket and give it to my kids after I die - not put it in this ramshackle of a old house.
So they basically run the place into the ground and then after they die, gypsies moves in - because they are the only ones that are willing to live in a depressed area, where the house has been degraded to the point of where it is barely livable. They do the bare minimum amount of work to keep the place liveable and then they either burn the shack down to the ground for the insurance money or it burns down because the wiring is substandard and they are drawing too much current through the wires or the furnace gives up and overheats and burns down the house and they collect the insurance money - if they have insurance and move on to the next place to do it over again.
Wheew - that was long winded.
So this leaves the young people with a bad taste in their mouths and this is the reason why they do not want to buy a old house and why they want a new house. Not to mention the fact that if both people in the household is working, there is no time to do whole house reno's when work and kids takes up their time and over time at work is the norm because most jobs don't pay enough in 40 hours to make a go of it anymore.
So which do you want to buy? A new house and just make the payments. or a old house which needs a lot of work and TLC! It wouldn't be a very good deal for a person from California to have to pay a heating bill all winter and then only use the place a couple of weeks per a year. You could stay at a 5 star hotel much cheaper then you could own a house in Johnstown PA.
It is perfectly possible that the $9k house you found is liveable. Johnstown is not crime-ridden that I am aware of, so I would not let fear of crime deter you. There is a difference between a depressed post-industrial community and a crime-ridden ghetto. Most of the older communities in western Pennsylvania have homes on the market for under $30,000. If a house is $9k, that is a reflection of the desirability of the community or the condition of the house. 1) Johnstown is not considered a desirable place to live for many people, simply because it is a dying rust belt city. 2) If the house is older, it may need lots of work.
I bought a house in McKees Rocks, PA for $10,000. The house was liveable when I bought it but needed lots of cosmetic updates. I have put a new front porch, windows, and repointed the brick. I have put about $6k into it. It now looks nice on the outside, but still needs some plaster work and flooring updates. I imagine I will have about $3k more into it when I am done. That will mean I invested about $19k total into the house (including purchase price) to make it look really nice.
I think anyone who says it costs $100k to renovate a 4 room house is out of their mind. You can get it done for less than $20k if the house you are starting with is in decent shape.
Thanks everyone for their input! I appreciate the different views. One thing that did not occur to me, is not being able to leave a home unattended in the winter. Obviously, living in So Cal all my life I assumed that a house could stay empty without concern. "Frozen pipes" are not even a part of my vocabulary! =)
Alleghenyangel, thanks for sharing your experience. I understand that Johnstown is not, and has not, been a desirable place to live based on economics but if we are looking to purchase a small "place back home" to visit on occasion then economy is not an issue but leaving a home safely vacant is. However, as I stated above, if a home cannot be left unattended during the winters then all of this is a moot point.
Anyway... thanks again for all of your input. There is so much to consider and I will continue to do more research. I was hoping to purchase a home for cash with my tax refund coming up in April but will do much more homework before making that decision.
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