Stop the push for red light cameras. (Philadelphia, Avalon: attorney, live)

[fisheye]

Right now there is a push to get these red light cameras in our major cities: http://paindependent.com/2011/11/cameras-may-target-red-light-runners-in-more-pa-cities/

We have to get more people to fight these camera lights. Here is a good link to why you should fight them: http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/studies

I used to drive truck and I have seen the aftermath of stoplight cameras. In Illinois, on Route 30, you can see the tire marks, the broken glass, and broken metal and plastic at these intersections. What happens is that the local motorist don’t want a ticket. They slam on their brakes suddenly to avoid the camera. That is great for them - but not for the motorist behind them that was not paying attention. You can talk all you want to about the person that followed too close - but that did not prevent the accident. The accident was caused because of the traffic light. Safety is not always safe. Look at the studies and don’t listen to the self serving sponsors of this legislation.

I have driven close to two and a half million miles in my life - some of that was as a professional truck driver. I cannot recall seeing one motorist run a red light. I am not counting yellow lights that turn quickly red. I know that it obviously happens. I have seen many motorist run stop signs or roll through the stop sign - nobody wants to put cameras on stop signs (it is too easy to obey the law and escape a ticket).

Do not allow our lobbyist to shove this legislation trough. Feel free to call your representatives and voice your opinion.

[TechieTransplant]

Originally Posted by fisheye

Right now there is a push to get these red light cameras in our major cities: http://paindependent.com/2011/11/cameras-may-target-red-light-runners-in-more-pa-cities/

We have to get more people to fight these camera lights. Here is a good link to why you should fight them: http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/studies

I used to drive truck and I have seen the aftermath of stoplight cameras. In Illinois, on Route 30, you can see the tire marks, the broken glass, and broken metal and plastic at these intersections. What happens is that the local motorist don’t want a ticket. They slam on their brakes suddenly to avoid the camera. That is great for them - but not for the motorist behind them that was not paying attention. You can talk all you want to about the person that followed too close - but that did not prevent the accident. The accident was caused because of the traffic light. Safety is not always safe. Look at the studies and don’t listen to the self serving sponsors of this legislation.

I have driven close to two and a half million miles in my life - some of that was as a professional truck driver. I cannot recall seeing one motorist run a red light. I am not counting yellow lights that turn quickly red. I know that it obviously happens. I have seen many motorist run stop signs or roll through the stop sign - nobody wants to put cameras on stop signs (it is too easy to obey the law and escape a ticket).

Do not allow our lobbyist to shove this legislation trough. Feel free to call your representatives and voice your opinion.

Give me a break, you haven't seen anyone run a red light? I think you're the one not paying attention, unbelievable....................

[RomaniGypsy]

The problem with red light cameras is mission creep. Where I live right now, there are red light cameras... and I have timed the yellow light duration of those intersections. I have found, without counterexample, that the yellow lights are drastically shorter at those intersections than they are at other traffic light controlled intersections of the same approach speed limit and approximate topography. Tell me why it is that a yellow light with a camera, on a 45 mph road, only lasts 3.3 seconds... whereas a yellow light without a camera, on a 40 mph road, lasts between 3.9 and 4.9 seconds?

I would favor red light cameras if they caught people who were obviously intending to run the red light or who were obviously not paying attention. So, put in your cameras, and legislate that the yellow light duration must be 1 second above average for any speed limit up to 45 mph and 2 seconds above average for any speed limit beyond 45 mph. Then the cameras will catch the people who intended to commit a violation. The way they're set up now, they catch people who figured it was unsafe to stop for the light and continued through, only to be popped by an unreasonably short yellow light.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by scottrpriester

Give me a break, you haven't seen anyone run a red light? I think you're the one not paying attention, unbelievable....................

I did qualify my remark. I said that I did not count motorist that push the stale yellow lights. Any yes; maybe I forgot one or two in the two and a half million miles that I drove? However, when I wrote the original post and even now; I still cannot think of any. I also discount grid lock in the cities - where motorist are stuck under the red lights.

I did say that I know that it happens - I am just giving you my recollections.

Driving heavy trucks I have encountered some lights that turned red before I could even make it through the intersection - even being the first vehicle to go. It was just poor light timing.

Like I said in the original post: I have seen plenty of motorist either roll through stop signs or fail to stop all together. I would actually not oppose cameras on stop signs. It is very easy to obey the law and nobody will rear end you - the motorist behind you expects you to stop. However; I don’t think they want a system that makes it easy to obey the law.

Do your own research on red light cameras. Don’t take my word for it. You should come to the same conclusion that this is not about safety - it is only about money and taking care of our special interest friends.

[Avalon08]

So you're thinking that motorists will, in a split-second, remember that that particular intersection has a red-light camera and then have time to jam on their brakes? "Preventing accidents" seems like a very far-fetched reason to get all riled-up against red-light cameras. In the grand scheme of things, I'd prefer they find a way of going after aggressive drivers, lane weavers, tailgaters, etc.

[pman]

I think Philadelphia has found there's an increase in accidents

[greg42]

Red light cameras don't really produce a net decrease in accidents. They trade a possible small decrease in side impact crashes for a notable increase in rear end crashes when people start slamming their brakes at the last second for the yellow.

You want to decrease accidents at lights? Increase the yellow time. Based on what I've read over the years people have a certain set expectation from the light that doesn't appear to really change, so setting the yellow longer would not necessarily cause people to adjust, just as having the red light cameras won't cause people not to rear end.

The biggest scandal is that red light cameras are installed and owned by the companies that make them! Then they give a share of the revenue to the city. Moneymaking scheme, pure and simple.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by greg42

Red light cameras don't really produce a net decrease in accidents. They trade a possible small decrease in side impact crashes for a notable increase in rear end crashes when people start slamming their brakes at the last second for the yellow.

You want to decrease accidents at lights? Increase the yellow time. Based on what I've read over the years people have a certain set expectation from the light that doesn't appear to really change, so setting the yellow longer would not necessarily cause people to adjust, just as having the red light cameras won't cause people not to rear end.

The biggest scandal is that red light cameras are installed and owned by the companies that make them! Then they give a share of the revenue to the city. Moneymaking scheme, pure and simple.

This morning I shot and e-mail to my local district representative. He did get right back to me and said that he did not expect the legislation to pass anytime soon.

There will always be some out there that will profit from this legislation. It could even be tied on to some other law enforcement bill? I just want people to think about this so you have a voice in new legislation.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by greg42

You want to decrease accidents at lights? Increase the yellow time.

Bingo. You'd think traffic engineers could figure this out.

[RomaniGypsy]

Originally Posted by Avalon08

So you're thinking that motorists will, in a split-second, remember that that particular intersection has a red-light camera and then have time to jam on their brakes? "Preventing accidents" seems like a very far-fetched reason to get all riled-up against red-light cameras. In the grand scheme of things, I'd prefer they find a way of going after aggressive drivers, lane weavers, tailgaters, etc.

I think that people's reactions to traffic lights are instantaneous, just as their reactions to cops are instantaneous. Come on, gimme a show of hands here. How many of you have been driving along, going the speed limit or even below it, when you see a cop car fairly close to you... coming up behind you, coming at you in the other lane, or maybe stopped on a side street... and you instinctively hit your brake?

The only way to combat red light camera intersections is to approach them with extreme caution even if the light is green, and that can make for road hazards as the people who would rather go the speed limit swerve around you. There's a reason why there is a "minimum speed" on some highways such as interstates... and that "minimum speed" is not far below the speed limit (maybe 10-15 mph below it). It's because going too slowly is a safety hazard too.

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

Bingo. You'd think traffic engineers could figure this out.

The traffic engineers did figure it out. But then the city comptroller had other ideas due to the fact that the traffic engineers' solution wouldn't bring any money into the city coffers.

Here's an interesting story for y'all. I got nabbed by one of those stupid red-light cameras about 1 1/2 years ago and I came into the court hearing with both guns blazing. I argued that assistant city attorney to the point where she was darn near speechless, and all she could say was "your honor, if you allow this argument to win, we will never be able to enforce the red light camera program again"........ oh, BOO HOO!!!

The judge said I was liable, but somehow, I never got sent a ticket. Maybe it was because of the non-profit organization I had already established with the county, and on Facebook, to get the red light cameras taken down. Perhaps they already knew what a stick of dynamite they'd be lighting if they tried to take any of my money like that.

Just last week, I got to vote for the recall of all the members of the city council in my town... all of whom favored the red light cameras. They all got booted out by a landslide. Maybe the new council will take the cameras down... or at least put it up to a vote of the citizens. Heaven knows, there's never been a place in America where the citizens have voted to keep the cameras when it's been put on the ballot. They all know it's a huge scam. Even the police know it's a huge scam. (The hearing officer at my initial hearing told me that he had noticed that the cameras caused an increase in dangerous driving. But naturally he declared me liable for the ticket, causing me to have to battle it in court. His argument was "Did you, or did you not, run the red light?" My rebuttal was "At what point does the yellow light duration become ridiculous? 50 mph road, one-second yellow light, CLICK, did you run the red light? Of course I did, because nobody can stop that fast for that short a yellow light! At what point is it ridiculous? 'Did you run the red light' doesn't always work!!"

Logic. Can't win much at the government level using logic, sadly. Hence why red light cameras should be outlawed by federal law... so that this doesn't have to be an issue constantly being battled in every municipality that is corrupt enough to enter into contracts with these red light camera companies.