Stop the push for red light cameras. (Harrisburg, Knox: property taxes, law)

[fisheye]

I was serious when I said that I have encountered a few lights that I could not make it through the light before it turned red. When You have very heavy loads (especially on an uphill road) you start off in your lowest gear. The lowest gear barely registers on the speedometer. I could start to go immediately after the light turned green and not make it through the intersection before it turned red. The light went through the full cycle and I did not make it!

I admit that these lights were an extreme case of poor timing.

However; I have read studies that suggest that there is pressure to shorten the yellow light timing as revenue goes down on the camera stop lights.

In post number five it was suggested that motorist do not think about the cameras - I disagree. If you already have points on your license, or you do not want to loose a hundred bucks, or you don’t want higher insurance premiums, or you have already received a ticket from the cameras; you do pay attention to the cameras. By the way; I don’t have any points and I have never received one of these tickets.

Our roads are actually open books when it comes to safety. They physically record dangerous turns and intersections. You don’t need the safety task force or special safety consultants to see a road that has problems. All you have to do is look at the skid marks on the pavement. One or two skid marks does not mean that much. If you have an area that always has skid marks; you have a dangerous problem. The problem could be caused from dangerous turns, poor road construction areas, quick changing yellow lights or camera lights.

[North Beach Person]

When MD installed red light cameras a few years ago at intersections that had incredibly high t-bone type accidents from red light runners (those also had a lot of fatals) the number of accidents decreased by something like 75%.

The problem now is mission creep. The state is now allowing speed cameras in school zones and other areas.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

When MD installed red light cameras a few years ago at intersections that had incredibly high t-bone type accidents from red light runners (those also had a lot of fatals) the number of accidents decreased by something like 75%.

The problem now is mission creep. The state is now allowing speed cameras in school zones and other areas.

In that original link that I posted: http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/studies There is some where around fifteen to twenty studies and reports that claim that these lights not only don’t work - but they can cause accidents.

To government, there is something very appealing about sitting behind a desk and collecting money. Sooner or later a motorist will extend the yellow light and they have you.

With your school zone speed cameras: I once got a speeding ticket (1966) from a crossing guard in PA. I was doing 25 or 30 in the 15 mph school zone. I was still doing slow enough for him to wave me over to the side of the road. However; I still went to the hearing to fight it - because I wanted to know how anybody on foot (without radar) could fine me for speeding. I lost and was told that police and school crossing guards do not need anything, except their judgment to issue anybody a ticket. I don’t know if our law has changed? But; I try to go very slow through school zones.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by greg42

You want to decrease accidents at lights? Increase the yellow time. Based on what I've read over the years people have a certain set expectation from the light that doesn't appear to really change, so setting the yellow longer would not necessarily cause people to adjust, just as having the red light cameras won't cause people not to rear end.

That would only be a temporary fix, as drivers become accustomed to the longer yellows you're back to where you started. For example there is a light near where I live that has a left turn on a green arrow. It's an extremely long duration between the yellow arrow going out and the opposing traffic getting the green where maybe up to 8 cars can safely get through the intersection. The locals know this and will continue to turn left when legally they should be stopping and yielding to opposing traffic. Having said that I don't know what the standard is or if there is one but there should be, yellow lights should be timed nationally the same at every intersection with exceptions for specific circumstances requiring longer ones such as a light at the end of a long hill.

Moneymaking scheme, pure and simple.

Agree 100%.

[TechieTransplant]

Originally Posted by fisheye

I did qualify my remark. I said that I did not count motorist that push the stale yellow lights. Any yes; maybe I forgot one or two in the two and a half million miles that I drove? However, when I wrote the original post and even now; I still cannot think of any. I also discount grid lock in the cities - where motorist are stuck under the red lights.

I did say that I know that it happens - I am just giving you my recollections.

Driving heavy trucks I have encountered some lights that turned red before I could even make it through the intersection - even being the first vehicle to go. It was just poor light timing.

You remind me of a political candidate who has no chance of winning an election. Why state such a ridiculous comment, it doesn't even come close to being believable

[heetseeker]

Originally Posted by fisheye

Right now there is a push to get these red light cameras in our major cities: http://paindependent.com/2011/11/cameras-may-target-red-light-runners-in-more-pa-cities/

We have to get more people to fight these camera lights. Here is a good link to why you should fight them: http://www.motorists.org/red-light-cameras/studies

I used to drive truck and I have seen the aftermath of stoplight cameras. In Illinois, on Route 30, you can see the tire marks, the broken glass, and broken metal and plastic at these intersections. What happens is that the local motorist don’t want a ticket. They slam on their brakes suddenly to avoid the camera. That is great for them - but not for the motorist behind them that was not paying attention. You can talk all you want to about the person that followed too close - but that did not prevent the accident. The accident was caused because of the traffic light. Safety is not always safe. Look at the studies and don’t listen to the self serving sponsors of this legislation.

I have driven close to two and a half million miles in my life - some of that was as a professional truck driver. I cannot recall seeing one motorist run a red light. I am not counting yellow lights that turn quickly red. I know that it obviously happens. I have seen many motorist run stop signs or roll through the stop sign - nobody wants to put cameras on stop signs (it is too easy to obey the law and escape a ticket).

Do not allow our lobbyist to shove this legislation trough. Feel free to call your representatives and voice your opinion.

acually they do have a stop sign camera in california.

[Mr Yuk]

California probably has cameras that watch people take a crap....and they probably send you a tax bill depending on the size of the dump.

[fisheye]

Originally Posted by scottrpriester

You remind me of a political candidate who has no chance of winning an election. Why state such a ridiculous comment, it doesn't even come close to being believable

I am not running for political office. I am retired and have no vested interest if we get the camera lights or not. I have never received any of these tickets and I have no points on my driving record.

I was serious when I talked about the lights that I could not make it through - starting from the time they turned green When I was a teenager I was into drag racing. Even today I pay attention and move when the light turns green. If I recall correctly I encountered quick changing lights in both Pittsburg and NC - I could be wrong; I was all over the place.

If it was up to me and it isn’t; I would have us invest in warning signs like Ohio. It has been a while since I was out there. But; I think they say prepare to stop when flashing. PA does have some warning signs like Ohio - but not as good. The signs are about an eighth of a mile before the intersection. They are large and have large amber lights (red and green color blind drivers appreciate amber). Their warning gives motorist plenty of time to stop before the lights turn red.

A nationally set minimum amount of time for yellow lights would also help.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by thecoalman

That would only be a temporary fix, as drivers become accustomed to the longer yellows you're back to where you started.

I really don't think this is true a lot of the time, but you did prompt me to remember another important part of this that I should have mentioned before: the delay time from turning red in one direction to turning green in the other. This could be adjusted whether the yellow was lengthened or not. PA in general is already pretty good at that in a lot of places, seems like. I know when I go to Mass. south shore Boston suburbs area there are plenty of old lights that have zero delay between the one direction turning red and the perpendicular direction turning green. Having that delay be an extra second or two could prevent some side impacts I would think, as least as many as the cameras would prevent.

Main point is that there are other ways to potentially address safety. There probably are some I'm not aware of. Introducing the cameras to give out tickets adds a way to make money, but without addressing some of these other possibilities they may not make things much if any safer.

[Craziaskowboi]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of red light cameras. It just seems like an ignoble way for some company to make a buck. It has nothing to do with safety. Even worse, if you stop at a red light and get rear-ended hard enough, you'll get pushed far enough into the intersection to get blind-sided anyway.