Centralia (Scranton, Lansford, Ashland: kitchen, best, building)

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by HappyRider

I was there just yesterday. I don't know what this means.

It's a joke.


Journey-Dont Stop Believing - YouTube

[PAhippo]

also a lyric from a Fleetwood Mac song

[DowntownHarrisburg]

You can be forgiven for being confused, though. There are Centralia denialists who insist there is no fire and that the whole thing was a plant so the government can come steal their land.

[HappyRider]

There are still one or two homes there that are inhabited. Wonder what their hazard insurance policy says.

[DowntownHarrisburg]

From a legal perspective, they don't own those homes, so they probably aren't insured. The state seized the entire town by eminent domain about a decade ago, and those people are allowed to live there at no cost. I think the last eviction took place around 2009 or 2010.

There's an outstanding book about the town called Fire Underground: The Ongoing Tragedy of Centralia written by a reporter who has covered the town for decades. It goes into a lot of detail about the politicking that led to the fire getting as bad as it was as well as the geology and practices that allowed it to spiral out of control. The author also has a number of photos available online:

Fire Underground: The Ongoing Tragedy of the Centralia Mine Fire: David DeKok: 9780762754274: Amazon.com: Books

Zenfolio | Centralia Photo Archive | MobileMe Import 01-Apr-2012

[HappyRider]

Just ordered the book. Ashland is only 2 miles away. Could they be next? Even if it is just perceived, it must affect lives and property values.

[DowntownHarrisburg]

Originally Posted by HappyRider

Just ordered the book. Ashland is only 2 miles away. Could they be next? Even if it is just perceived, it must affect lives and property values.

First and foremost, because of the water table there, it is unlikely to spread beyond more or less where it is now. There are still veins left to burn, but for the most part, in all likelihood the worst of the damage is done.

However.

Centralia sits on top of the Mammoth bed. This is called the Mammoth bed for a reason. It's huge. It cuts a wide path all the way up past Scranton and continues quite a ways south and west of Centralia. Not all of it is mineable, but all of it is combustible. And if I'm not mistaken, it has already ignited. The Mammoth bed dips far below the water table as it passes to the northeast and south, meaning penetration to Ashland or any points north or east is unlikely. However, it does have a slim chance of making it to Mt. Carmel. If that happens, it would be devastating for the town if nothing was done.

IIRC (any geological experts on that region should feel free to correct me here, because I'm a little rusty) there is a thin stretch of coal that could carry the fire into Mt. Carmel without dipping below the water line. Much of this has been strip mined over the years, but not all of it. There are also a few other beds (Buck Mountain, Skidmore, Seven Foot, and maybe two more that I can't remember off the top of my head) running over that way. In theory, if we discovered that the fire was spreading to the west, we'd learn from our mistakes at Centralia and immediately dig a gigantic trench just east of Mt. Carmel in order to save the town. Unfortunately, this assumes that the local, state, and federal government will all remember what happened last time, learn from their mistakes, and work together in perfect harmony.

In reality, if the fire spread west (again, unlikely), Mt. Carmel would probably end up like Centralia.

EDIT: Food for thought. Some people swear that because the coal beds in that area are all separated by lots of non-combustible things like rock and dirt, there's no danger of cross contamination. This would be true were it not for the fact that as far back as the 1890s, several collieries operated with multiple shafts to each bed. This provides more than enough of a passage for fire to spread to each bed. The Logan Colliery, for example, had shafts to both the Mammoth bed and the Buck Mountain bed (where the fire started). On top of this, the workings were later connected to the Centralia Colliery, which also mined the Mammoth bed.

[thecoalman]

Coal gives off methane, it's these gases that are burning and not the coal itself. You can have a rock bank that might have 10 to 20% coal that will burn, you couldn't burn that in a coal stove.

Olyphant Mine Fire

This is rock, it's not coal. It's the porous nature that allows the gases to burn. Coal is non porous.

[DowntownHarrisburg]

UGM - I love that site.

I've seen pictures like that of the Centralia mine fire down in the vicinity of Big Mine Run Road. About a year ago we booked David Dekok (author of the book I linked earlier) to give a guided tour of the area. Money well spent -- I learned a lot about the region that I didn't previously know. I asked where he took that picture, and he couldn't quite remember. We found some interesting things around the bend, but nowhere where the mine had penetrated the surface and certainly not any hot gases escaping.

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by DowntownHarrisburg

UGM - I love that site.

I made their banner many years ago. I met Chris once. He gave me and some members of my forum an extended trip through the the mine at McDade.