Scarnati and PLCB Privatization (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: sales, buying, landlord)

[pman]

his concerns seem almost totally devoid of reality. small towns in other states have access to liquor stores but I guess he has a point, what would a small town be doing with a liquor store if the number of licenses limited to 650 for a whole state? it wouldn't have one. most likely his store is one of the ones that loses money and, perhaps, is located there simply because of political influence. of course, if you create more licenses or uncap them, you'll have more stores. even after all these improvements, state stores still routinely improperly store wine. and hypocritically, he wants to take off the handcuffs...except the one that has stores in political locations rather than aimed at maximizing profit. much like post offices, these stores often pop in in developments that have political connections whether or not the store size is even adequate. since his opinions make little sense, one can only conclude he's been bought.

Senate President Tempore Joe Scarnati, R-Jefferson County, said the
state hasn't realized maximum profits from the state-controlled liquor
system.
"You fix up your car before you sell it," Scarnati said. He recommended
taking off the "handcuffs" and allowing the LCB flexibility in pricing
before divestiture is contemplated...
One of his concerns, he said, is service to rural areas. "There isn't
going to be a bid on the liquor store in Brockway," he said, referring
to his hometown. "Obviously this system has helped rural areas with
access," he said.

Read more: Scarnati says liquor store divestiture not top Senate priority - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review Scarnati says liquor store divestiture not top Senate priority - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

[Lehigh Valley Native]

I actually think we should retain the PLCB. The only reason I believe this, is if we don't, in a few years we will face higher taxes to make up from the loss of revenue generated by the PLCB.

I don't think our prices are higher than neighboring states. People go to Delaware to buy alcohol because there are no taxes, something that won't change in PA.

[ki0eh]

Although he may just be looking for a higher bid for his support (he went to the Super Bowl courtesy of Consol, so the World Series this time? ), there is a valid point about the PLCB supplying better alcohol to smaller towns than peer states with private stores. No the state probably shouldn't have started the system but keeping it has its uses including as the most effective means we seem to have for getting money from drillers. I hear Crown Royal sales in Jersey Shore went from two cases a year to two a week when the drillers moved in and I suspect it's similar in Brockway.

[fisheye]

I like the idea of privatization - if done right.

However; the current PA leadership seems to only have alcohol on it’s mind. They either changed (or tried to change) the hours that our State stores could stay open on Sunday. They extended “Happy Hour” and they did something with the shipping alcohol laws. Now they are thinking about privatization. They should give up drinking!

What bothers me about change is that it can take some time before we know the damage or good that it might accomplish. Our state constantly tells us of the dangers of drinking and driving.

Anything that makes drinking easier could potentially have repercussions on our roads. I just think that we should let the dust settle before we go hog wild.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by pman

one can only conclude he's been bought.

He's a Pennsylvania politician, isn't he? Of course he's been bought.

Originally Posted by Lehigh Valley Native

the loss of revenue generated by the PLCB.

To go along with the lower costs of not operating liquor stores in the first place. The state will save money by licensing liquor stores privately: No more operating costs, no more outrageous salaries to uneducated clerks, no more ridiculous pensions.

People go to Delaware to buy alcohol because there are no taxes, something that won't change in PA.

Not every corner of the state borders Delaware.

Originally Posted by fisheye

What bothers me about change is that it can take some time before we know the damage or good that it might accomplish. Our state constantly tells us of the dangers of drinking and driving.

Are DUI rates higher in states with privately run liquor stores? Or states that sell beer and wine in grocery stores? I think not.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Lehigh Valley Native

I actually think we should retain the PLCB. The only reason I believe this, is if we don't, in a few years we will face higher taxes to make up from the loss of revenue generated by the PLCB.

I don't think our prices are higher than neighboring states. People go to Delaware to buy alcohol because there are no taxes, something that won't change in PA.

I don't think this is true at all.
first of all, most of the revenue comes from the tax. the actual profit from the stores is shockingly low, maybe a 5% margin

People go to DE (and NJ mind you) not because it's tax free, but because
1) the wine is less likely to have been stored improperly, thus rendering an expensive bottle of bad vinegar
2) selection is better
3) service is helpful and friendly

Originally Posted by ki0eh

Although he may just be looking for a higher bid for his support (he went to the Super Bowl courtesy of Consol, so the World Series this time? ), there is a valid point about the PLCB supplying better alcohol to smaller towns than peer states with private stores. No the state probably shouldn't have started the system but keeping it has its uses including as the most effective means we seem to have for getting money from drillers. I hear Crown Royal sales in Jersey Shore went from two cases a year to two a week when the drillers moved in and I suspect it's similar in Brockway.

to your first point, you're probably right on. he didn't voie outright opposition, which may indeed signal "buy me out" because I've got another bidder. I don't buy the rural point though, it doesn't make any sense, particularly if you've been to other states. first, there simply aren't enough stores to actually serve rural areas well. it seems more likley that some rural areas get better access based on political connections. many of the stores in the Philadelphia area choose their location based on political connections of the developer or landlord so it's unlike it's any different in rural PA. second, small towns in other states have access just like in PA. Lastly, those drillers would also buy from private operators. the downside? the plcb soaks up most of the profits.
fisheye-it doesn't actually make drinking easier, it makes buying your own booze versus a bar or a distributor (or buying drugs, which despite being illegal, are easier to get than alcohol in a lot of areas). in some ways, it might actually reduce drinking and driving if more people consume at home. that said, what probably contributes more to drinking and driving is the limited number of licenses for bars, which in some areas means people have to travel further to drink than they otherwise would.
a guy in the pittsburgh forum brought up that the clerks were probably paid better than private sector clerks were but then also said they should probably be a lot better than private sector clerks but the inverse is true. I would like to see further changes to the proposal though, splitting wine from liquor seems like a good one. get rid of the cap on licenses for wine.

as for the happy hour law, it actually did more good things for nanobrewers (you can now buy registration for up to 20 beers at a time, dramatically lowering red tape costs for small batch brewers, wineries can now sell at farmer's markets every day, only one at a time though, and can have up to five retal outlets statewide. there are wineries in PA that sell more in other states like Md because it isn't worth dealing with out laws. that actually reduces job creation and income for Pennsylvanians.

[fisheye]

Ohiogirl81,

“Are DUI rates higher in states with privately run liquor stores? Or states that sell beer and wine in grocery stores? I think not.”

PA has not accepted a privately run liquor store system. Possibly we might in the future? But; how do you know what our DUI rates will be when it hasn’t happened? We don’t know the nuts and bold of any pending legislation. What works in Ohio; might not work for us. The few changes, that were recently made with our alcohol laws, have not been on our books long enough to study the repercussions.

I just don’t think it is as easy as one size fits all.

[pman]

Originally Posted by fisheye

Ohiogirl81,

“Are DUI rates higher in states with privately run liquor stores? Or states that sell beer and wine in grocery stores? I think not.”

PA has not accepted a privately run liquor store system. Possibly we might in the future? But; how do you know what our DUI rates will be when it hasn’t happened? We don’t know the nuts and bold of any pending legislation. What works in Ohio; might not work for us. The few changes, that were recently made with our alcohol laws, have not been on our books long enough to study the repercussions.

I just don’t think it is as easy as one size fits all.

and you don't know them either, you seem to just be assuming that a private liquor store will result in massive increases in dui's...despite having no real basis for that assumption. drinking and ricing is arguably less of a problem today than it was thirty years ago but it isn't because we instituted a state owned system is it? it's simply less accepted culturally and privatizing state stores won't change that.

[Lehigh Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

To go along with the lower costs of not operating liquor stores in the first place. The state will save money by licensing liquor stores privately: No more operating costs, no more outrageous salaries to uneducated clerks, no more ridiculous pensions.


Not every corner of the state borders Delaware.

The PLCB is profitable, I fail to see how salaries, pensions, and operating costs matter. If it was losing money, ok, but it doesn't.

As far as "uneducated clerks", yeah, because every liquor store clerk I have had the pleasure of meeting in another state, is among the most educated class of society.

Originally Posted by pman

I don't think this is true at all.
first of all, most of the revenue comes from the tax. the actual profit from the stores is shockingly low, maybe a 5% margin

People go to DE (and NJ mind you) not because it's tax free, but because
1) the wine is less likely to have been stored improperly, thus rendering an expensive bottle of bad vinegar
2) selection is better
3) service is helpful and friendly

I buy wine from PA wineries, so I don't know if what you say is true, since besides buying Arbor Mist or similar for parties, I don't buy wine at state stores.

All I know is a bottle of Absolute or Bacardi costs the same here as it does in NJ or DE, the only difference is the tax. Something that won't go away with privatization. Then why privatize? The state isn't going to make more money if they privatize, at least I don't think they will.


I don't think government should be in private business. That said, unfortunately the system has been set up and in place for many years. Thousands of PA families rely on the PLCB to provide their livelihood, at no expense to taxpayers. I just don't see that having "properly handled bottles of wine" enough of a payoff.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by Lehigh Valley Native

The state isn't going to make more money if they privatize, at least I don't think they will.

Perhaps not, but it won't be spending as much on the business, either. All those cushy liquor store clerk positions with their hefty pensions cost a lot.

I don't think government should be in private business. That said, unfortunately the system has been set up and in place for many years.

*sigh* That's the attitude that's been holding this state back for decades, and in more than just the liquor business.

Thousands of PA families rely on the PLCB to provide their livelihood, at no expense to taxpayers.

Are you kidding me? What does a state employee pension cost?