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Personally, I wouldn't do the York area. Out of the three "big cities" of south central PA, it's by far the least progressive. You'll just travel to Harrisburg or Lancaster for cultural activities.
That's not the case in the city itself, which is as liberal as Lancaster County is conservative.
(Hiatorical tale to illustrate this: In 1961, Lancaster City and Lancaster County formed a joint Human Relations Commission to investigate cases of discrimination on the basis of several protected categories: race, sex, religion, and later age.
(In 1985, Lancaster City added sexual orientation to its list of protected categories, which the county responded to by withdrawing from the joint commission.)
But you did say you didn't want to live in the city, so maybe the county is still the deal-breaker.
I just checked Google Maps, so yeah, Lancaster County is not for me, but the places right east of it are places I would consider (except for Coatesville which is a bad area), maybe Glenmore, Brandamore Chester Springs, etc. They are semi rural areas, but at least in that large metro area (Phili Metro).
Boy, this is tough. In fact, I don’t think it’s possible to find a place in Pennsylvania that checks all of these boxes, which moshywilly is making sound like non-negotiable essentials (aside from the very last item on the list, which, ironically, isn’t all that hard to fulfill).
The good news is that there are lots of places which offer most of what you’re looking for in various shades and degrees and combinations, and many of them have already been suggested by the various posters in this thread.
Moshywilly: please do yourself a favor and divide your list into three categories: (1) essentials—items that are truly non-negotiable (and I recommend limiting this to five things out of your 16); (2) pluses—things that you’d like to have but are not core requirements; and (3) bonuses—features that are icing on the cake but are not greatly important to your day-to-day-life.
I would also ask that you reconsider, modify, or clarify any of the following requirements, especially if you currently view them as essentials:
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshywilly
1. Must be 2 hours away (and NOT less than) from my part of Morris County. I have used Google Maps to calculate driving times from my hometown
This is cutting you off from a lot of quality options within the eastern third of the Commonwealth. I understand you want to avoid seeing people you know from your home region, but you have no surefire way of guaranteeing that regardless of where you live (apart, perhaps, from an offshore oil rig). Perhaps avoiding the more touristy areas within that two-hour driving range is good enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshywilly
6. Somewhere less than an average annual 25 inches of snow. 25 inches of snow is the annual amount for my hometown in NJ and it would be great to have slightly less.
This will be incredibly difficult to accomplish. Even parts of Montgomery, Bucks, and Chester Counties exceed this range, and besides Philadelphia and Delaware Counties, only the southerly lower-lying areas of Lancaster and York County are within this range. Do yourself a favor and up the total to 40” (give or take). That will open up so many doors. Otherwise, you’ll probably need to throw Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia into the mix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshywilly
7. Natural disasters must not be bad enough to destroy my house, so no wet land or bodies of water extremely close to my house and no visible tornado funnels.
You’re going to need to clarify a little. It’s very rare for tornadoes to hit Southeastern Pennsylvania, but it can happen, and significant damage (and even a few deaths) took place there during Hurricane Ida in September 2021 (not to mention some extreme flooding). Can you live with a place where these occurrences are fairly rare, but still theoretically possible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshywilly
8. Live somewhere where I either have no neighbors or neighbors far apart from each other, and would like to live somewhere where neighbors are separated by nature, not a fence. I do not want trees extremely to my house since trees can fall on my house or have roots growing underground destroying pipes.
This is a needle in a haystack if you’re looking to rent. Perhaps being in a small town near or surrounded by rural areas is good enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshywilly
9. Need access to suburbs, chain stores, but a little mix of mom and pop places. For "eating out", I prefer mom and pop places
How close do these need to be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshywilly
10. Metro area with higher numbers of young people and opportunities to make friends. When I grew up in NJ, I felt like NJ was loaded with elderly people all over the place and I feel like NJ is a retiree state. Here in the Bay Area, I noticed there are more young people all over the place. I do understand that living somewhere "semi rural" may impact things.
If you think New Jersey is a “retiree state,” you are in for a rude awakening in the semi-rural parts of Pennsylvania. I get not wanting to live in a 55+ community, but as long as there are some younger professionals within fairly close reach, what’s the issue? It’s also not a bad thing to have friends of all ages (and I would even recommend it).
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshywilly
11. Need to have plenty of LGBT men around. Finding LGBT men on dating apps was plentiful in NJ and even in the Bay Area. Obviously being in a semi-rural may restrict my access to them.
What’s your definition of “plenty of LGBT men,” and how close does an LGBTQ+ scene need to be? Would it be all right to live in a place that’s LGBTQ+ friendly and has at least a few folks under the umbrella that’s within an hour of a more prominent LGBTQ+ community? Keep in mind that the “more prominent LGBTQ+” community may be a place like Lancaster, Harrisburg, and Wilkes-Barre, and not somewhere like New York, Philadelphia, or Pittsburgh.
Boy, this is tough. In fact, I don’t think it’s possible to find a place in Pennsylvania that checks all of these boxes, which moshywilly is making sound like non-negotiable essentials (aside from the very last item on the list, which, ironically, isn’t all that hard to fulfill).
The good news is that there are lots of places which offer most of what you’re looking for in various shades and degrees and combinations, and many of them have already been suggested by the various posters in this thread.
Moshywilly: please do yourself a favor and divide your list into three categories: (1) essentials—items that are truly non-negotiable (and I recommend limiting this to five things out of your 16); (2) pluses—things that you’d like to have but are not core requirements; and (3) bonuses—features that are icing on the cake but are not greatly important to your day-to-day-life.
I would also ask that you reconsider, modify, or clarify any of the following requirements, especially if you currently view them as essentials:
This is cutting you off from a lot of quality options within the eastern third of the Commonwealth. I understand you want to avoid seeing people you know from your home region, but you have no surefire way of guaranteeing that regardless of where you live (apart, perhaps, from an offshore oil rig). Perhaps avoiding the more touristy areas within that two-hour driving range is good enough.
This will be incredibly difficult to accomplish. Even parts of Montgomery, Bucks, and Chester Counties exceed this range, and besides Philadelphia and Delaware Counties, only the southerly lower-lying areas of Lancaster and York County are within this range. Do yourself a favor and up the total to 40” (give or take). That will open up so many doors. Otherwise, you’ll probably need to throw Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia into the mix.
You’re going to need to clarify a little. It’s very rare for tornadoes to hit Southeastern Pennsylvania, but it can happen, and significant damage (and even a few deaths) took place there during Hurricane Ida in September 2021 (not to mention some extreme flooding). Can you live with a place where these occurrences are fairly rare, but still theoretically possible?
This is a needle in a haystack if you’re looking to rent. Perhaps being in a small town near or surrounded by rural areas is good enough.
How close do these need to be?
If you think New Jersey is a “retiree state,” you are in for a rude awakening in the semi-rural parts of Pennsylvania. I get not wanting to live in a 55+ community, but as long as there are some younger professionals within fairly close reach, what’s the issue? It’s also not a bad thing to have friends of all ages (and I would even recommend it).
What’s your definition of “plenty of LGBT men,” and how close does an LGBTQ+ scene need to be? Would it be all right to live in a place that’s LGBTQ+ friendly and has at least a few folks under the umbrella that’s within an hour of a more prominent LGBTQ+ community? Keep in mind that the “more prominent LGBTQ+” community may be a place like Lancaster, Harrisburg, and Wilkes-Barre, and not somewhere like New York, Philadelphia, or Pittsburgh.
A lot of people on here greatly talked about LGBT stuff on here, which I was not expecting. Oh, and I am not even looking for a big LGBT "scene" like you would get in a big city. I am obviously not going to expect an LGBT scene like you get in California or NYC. What I am looking for is gay men to make friends with in the area and just a few venues to meet them. Trust me, there more LGBT people than you think. Living in the suburbs of NYC, I found plenty of LGBT people all over the place and never had to go into NYC to ever meet any. There is also Meetup.com, which has people hosting events for LGBT men and I am pretty sure I can find these Meetup events within a 25 mile radius. So, LGBT people are not scarce as you think they are. It would also be cool to have a few gay bars, but they do not have to be close to home, like maybe 50 miles. Lancaster has a gay bar and I heard one of Lancaster's only gay bars closed down permanently due to the pandemic. There are also nudist resorts and LGBT campgrounds in the state. I will not expect to have gay bars in large amounts like in the Bay Area. PA is a totally different flavor than being in the Bay Area in California.
It seems like the biggest issue with me wanting to live in PA is the lack of desirable demographics based on what people are saying. I would still live in a semi-rural area, but I am willing to drive a little far to see my young friends. And with remote work these days, I am pretty sure semi-rural areas are evolving. But yes, there will be less of the demographic I want in a semi-rural area. Not all of NJ is a "retiree state". In the previous neighborhood my parents lived in before I was born, it currently has a lot of young people and I used to drive to that area a lot due to a mall in that area. The mall in that area seems like it is dying while strongly attracting young people and that mall is surrounded by suburbs and semi-rural areas.
In terms of snow, yes my hometown in NJ does get more than the annual 25 inches of snowfall per year, but I just do not want to live on a high elevation or on a mountain like how my parents used to live in a NJ suburb on a high elevation that used to get significantly more snow than the hometown I grew up in.
Natural disasters that probably happen in southeastern PA are going to be the same in NJ. We had tornadoe warnings in NJ, but never in my lifetime have I actually seen a funnel in NJ, it is just strong winds that will not tear down my parents' house. We had some bad flooding from the 2021 hurricane, but in my hometown, it only flooded a road next to a wet land. Sounds bearable to me.
Lastly, I am also considering northern Virginia in my list of places to move to.
Y'know, those snow and distance-from-New-Jersey requirements also remove from consideration another part of the state that I think you would otherwise find attractive:
the Pocono Mountains in the northeast part of the state.
The Poconos are Pennsylvania's great vacation playground.The region has lots of protected game lands for hunting, parklands for hiking, and lakes for boating, fishing, and (in some cases) ice fishing and skating in the winter.
Much of it consists of resort communities around those lakes, but you can still find some pretty isolated-feeling places amid all the resort subdivisions.
The biggest town in the Poconos itself, Stroudsburg, is pretty happening, and the Wayne County seat of Honesdale has also become cool of late. And there has to be a decent number of LGBT folk in the hills, because it's not just vacationers who patronize the Hayloft dance club at Rainbow Mountain Resort, the only LGBT dance club in the Poconos. Rainbow Mountain has been welcoming LGBT vacationers since 1981.
And if you want a taste of something a little more urban, the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton conurbation is about a half-hour from Stroudsburg.
But the mountains are mountains, even if they're not all that high, and I suspect you would find traversing the mountain roads after a snowstorm (the Poconos are also home to most of Pennsylvania's ski resorts) quite annoying.
A lot of people on here greatly talked about LGBT stuff on here, which I was not expecting. Oh, and I am not even looking for a big LGBT "scene" like you would get in a big city. I am obviously not going to expect an LGBT scene like you get in California or NYC. What I am looking for is gay men to make friends with in the area and just a few venues to meet them. Trust me, there more LGBT people than you think. Living in the suburbs of NYC, I found plenty of LGBT people all over the place and never had to go into NYC to ever meet any. There is also Meetup.com, which has people hosting events for LGBT men and I am pretty sure I can find these Meetup events within a 25 mile radius. So, LGBT people are not scarce as you think they are. It would also be cool to have a few gay bars, but they do not have to be close to home, like maybe 50 miles. Lancaster has a gay bar and I heard one of Lancaster's only gay bars closed down permanently due to the pandemic. There are also nudist resorts and LGBT campgrounds in the state. I will not expect to have gay bars in large amounts like in the Bay Area. PA is a totally different flavor than being in the Bay Area in California.
I actually have a lot of LGBTQ+ friends and family, so I know full well of what you speak. I wanted more clarification on what you’re looking for and what you need to feel comfortable and safe—which is of paramount importance!
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshywilly
It seems like the biggest issue with me wanting to live in PA is the lack of desirable demographics based on what people are saying. I would still live in a semi-rural area, but I am willing to drive a little far to see my young friends. And with remote work these days, I am pretty sure semi-rural areas are evolving. But yes, there will be less of the demographic I want in a semi-rural area. Not all of NJ is a "retiree state". In the previous neighborhood my parents lived in before I was born, it currently has a lot of young people and I used to drive to that area a lot due to a mall in that area. The mall in that area seems like it is dying while strongly attracting young people and that mall is surrounded by suburbs and semi-rural areas.
I think you have a lot of competing wants that you should more clearly triage (as I have suggested) so that we can better help you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshywilly
In terms of snow, yes my hometown in NJ does get more than the annual 25 inches of snowfall per year, but I just do not want to live on a high elevation or on a mountain like how my parents used to live in a NJ suburb on a high elevation that used to get significantly more snow than the hometown I grew up in.
There’s a lot of room between an average of 25” of annual snowfall and the snowfall that comes with living on top of a mountain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moshywilly
Natural disasters that probably happen in southeastern PA are going to be the same in NJ. We had tornadoe warnings in NJ, but never in my lifetime have I actually seen a funnel in NJ, it is just strong winds that will not tear down my parents' house. We had some bad flooding from the 2021 hurricane, but in my hometown, it only flooded a road next to a wet land. Sounds bearable to me.
Then it sounds like you’ll be fine in that regard.
Last edited by ElijahAstin; 11-18-2022 at 05:25 AM..
Y'know, those snow and distance-from-New-Jersey requirements also remove from consideration another part of the state that I think you would otherwise find attractive:
the Pocono Mountains in the northeast part of the state.
The Poconos are Pennsylvania's great vacation playground.The region has lots of protected game lands for hunting, parklands for hiking, and lakes for boating, fishing, and (in some cases) ice fishing and skating in the winter.
Much of it consists of resort communities around those lakes, but you can still find some pretty isolated-feeling places amid all the resort subdivisions.
The biggest town in the Poconos itself, Stroudsburg, is pretty happening, and the Wayne County seat of Honesdale has also become cool of late. And there has to be a decent number of LGBT folk in the hills, because it's not just vacationers who patronize the Hayloft dance club at Rainbow Mountain Resort, the only LGBT dance club in the Poconos. Rainbow Mountain has been welcoming LGBT vacationers since 1981.
And if you want a taste of something a little more urban, the Wilkes-Barre/Scranton conurbation is about a half-hour from Stroudsburg.
But the mountains are mountains, even if they're not all that high, and I suspect you would find traversing the mountain roads after a snowstorm (the Poconos are also home to most of Pennsylvania's ski resorts) quite annoying.
I also do not want the Poconos, because it will be too rural for me. I still want the large metropolitan area to live in like what I am used to in Nj. Poconos is great to travel to and there is plenty to do there, but I would not live there. I think southeastern PA is the best choice. It also will give off that Morris County feeling at the same time.
I also do not want the Poconos, because it will be too rural for me. I still want the large metropolitan area to live in like what I am used to in Nj. Poconos is great to travel to and there is plenty to do there, but I would not live there. I think southeastern PA is the best choice. It also will give off that Morris County feeling at the same time.
I think Chester County would be a good fit for you then. Look around Downingtown, Exton, and West Chester.
I actually have a lot of LGBTQ+ friends and family, so I know full well of what you speak. I wanted more clarification on what you’re looking for and what you need to feel comfortable and safe—which is of paramount importance!
I think you have a lot of competing wants that you should more clearly triage (as I have suggested) so that we can better help you.
There’s a lot of room between an average of 25” of annual snowfall and the snowfall that comes with living on top of a mountain.
Then it sounds like you’ll be fine in that regard.
I'll give a summary on what I want in the same type of format most people on City-Data use when they want to move.
Age: 24
Gender: M
Where are you coming from?
Bay Area of California
Where are you originally from?
A North Jersey suburb 23-24 miles from NYC
Where are you looking to move to:
Preferably Southeastern PA
Type of civlization:
Semi-rural, but with access to suburbia not too far. I need suburbia to contain my big box retail stores and plenty of mom and pops places to eat out
Elevation:
No mountains, no high elevations,
Type of home in the future: would not want to own a home on a hill.
Budget: Rent at first $1100 a month maximum no roommates, eventually buy a single family home not on a hill maximum of $250K.
Scenery:
Pretty much the scenery I see when driving from North Jersey to Lancaster. Lots of rolling hills a combination of forestry to grand views (pretty much what southeastern PA has).
Weather desired:
Typical Northeast / Mid-Atlantic weather. Would be nice to have less than an annual of 25 inches of snowfall
Schools?
No schools, and I do not want to have kids
Demographics desired:
With living in a semi rural area, I am find having a crowd of seniors nearby, but I would like to have access to young people of all colors and a handful of LGBT young men within a 10-20 mile distance. Ages as of 2022 must be between 18-31 (the maximum age range I would want to be friends with anyone in my lifetime is 7 years apart). I totally understand demographics are not the best in a semi-rural area and I will not expect amazing demographics like California.
Nightlife?
No nightlife within my distance desired, but would like to have a gay bar within 50 miles of me.
Opportunities to make friends:
Must live within 25 miles of Meetup.com groups or social venues and must be able to access my desirable demographic. Also, I am not looking for a large LGBT scene. Just a handful amount of gay social venues and nothing too exotic.
Food?
Same as NJ food. Diners, pizza and would be nice to have ethnic foods around.
Safety?
Want to be able to live in a home and a metro area with very little crime just like in NJ suburbs. This is my priority, because I live in the Bay Area which is an unsafe metro area to live in even out the cities.
Vibe and general atmosphere?
Looking for a central/western Morris County, NJ vibe
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