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As mentioned on here before, I am 24M from Morris County, NJ originally and I moved into the Bay Area of California at 22 and I currently live with family out here in the Bay Area. I really do miss living on the East Coast and would like to move back. I would not like to live back in NJ, for some personal reasons and I did not like the people in my hometown and plus I want to live somewhere with more scenery and more nature, not just concrete jungles of NJ and CA. I also want to move somewhere semi-rural if that is a realistic thing to do as long as I get a remote job.
Southeastern PA looks fine, the only thing I don't like is that it is not forested / has a large undisturbed forested area like in NJ, which I have asked about on here already. If you look at a map on Google Earth, it is more light shades of green. In real life, I have visited Lancaster area specifically and it reminds me of a green desert and is still really beautiful without a claustrophobic amount of trees like what you get in NJ.
One thing I like about west PA is that it has more forest cover. I have been told that western PA is Midwestern, but does not look Midwestern on Google Earth to me since it is very mountainous. My company will promote me soon, which means I will not have to go into the office every day, but hybrid is mandatory, but my company is very lenient in terms of transferring offices. My company has an office in [Pittsburgh Suburb Name], PA.
Here are things I am looking for:
1. Must be 2 hours away (and NOT less than) from my part of Morris County. I have used Google Maps to calculate driving times from my hometown
2. Must have towns that give off a western/central Morris County vibe (you would know the vibe if you grew up in NJ yourself).
3. Must have wifi in a semi-rural area, since I would work remote.
4. Must have phone service
5. Must not be the only person of color in a semi-rural area.
6. Somewhere less than an average annual 25 inches of snow. 25 inches of snow is the annual amount for my hometown in NJ and it would be great to have slightly less.
7. Natural disasters must not be bad enough to destroy my house, so no wet land or bodies of water extremely close to my house and no visible tornado funnels.
8. Live somewhere where I either have no neighbors or neighbors far apart from each other, and would like to live somewhere where neighbors are separated by nature, not a fence. I do not want trees extremely to my house since trees can fall on my house or have roots growing underground destroying pipes.
9. Need access to suburbs, chain stores, but a little mix of mom and pop places. For "eating out", I prefer mom and pop places
10. Metro area with higher numbers of young people and opportunities to make friends. When I grew up in NJ, I felt like NJ was loaded with elderly people all over the place and I feel like NJ is a retiree state. Here in the Bay Area, I noticed there are more young people all over the place. I do understand that living somewhere "semi rural" may impact things.
11. Need to have plenty of LGBT men around. Finding LGBT men on dating apps was plentiful in NJ and even in the Bay Area. Obviously being in a semi-rural may restrict my access to them.
12. Looking to pay rent at first, then eventually buy a home: $1100 a month for rent maximum for my own place (small apartment or house) with no roommates. Is under $1000 even possible in PA? Also, I need parking and laundry in my apartment.
13. Looking to buy a house in the future that would be $250,000 maximum, which is absolutely stunning for someone from NJ and has lived in CA. Looking for just a simple one story house with a garage, nothing too big or too small. I want some backyard space, but I do not want to live in a traditional suburb, so I don't have to mow grass, I want to use the soil and grow my own vegetables (great for times like inflation).
14. I want to live in a metro area where there is low crime (except for the city itself) just like my life in suburban NJ. This is one of my main concerns. In the Bay Area, there is too much crime every day, too many crazy/mentally ill people everywhere (just like what you see on Youtube), too many street people who dress like criminals, etc. Every municipality in the Bay Area is a big city rather than a suburban type of atmosphere you get on the East Coast. A place like Coatesville is off my list, because I hear horrible things about it despite it being a small city smack in a semi-rural area.
15. Need to live where Amazon and various things can get delivered to me.
16. Would-be-nice-to-have, but not a must, I would like to have bike trails or separate roads/trails for bikes, e-bikes, e-scooters or other micromobility vehicles.
Unfortunately. the admins here are more likely to delete posts complaining about antisemitism than the actual anti Jewish posts themselves. Its pathetic, and the only reason why the Pittsburgh forum exists.
Unfortunately you will have to compromise at least somewhat on your wish list, as I don't believe any metropolitan or micropolitan area in Pennsylvania will check all your boxes.
My first thought would be for you to consider State College, which is the home of Penn State University. For being in Central Pennsylvania the community is reasonably-diverse (i.e. you won't be the only educated person of color and stick out like a sore thumb), there would be ample younger LGBT singles for you to date, and your rent budget might be tight but doable, especially if you are willing to look in one of the surrounding suburban townships. Unfortunately I can't guarantee <25" of snow per winter. Depending upon the track of coastal Nor'easter systems and how they "wobble" as they move up State College could be in a 2"-4" range or a 1'-2' range. For example in 2010 we had "Snowmaggeddon", which was the biggest storm in recent memory. I lived in Virginia at the time, and we had 3' of snow on the ground between that storm and another storm that had also struck around the same time. State College, PA was buried, too.
Otherwise you will find cheap and scenic in places like Altoona, Johnstown, or DuBois; however, you will likely be the only educated young LGBT single person of color in these communities and will feel socioculturally isolated. The Lehigh Valley (Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton) is too close to your former NJ stomping grounds. Erie is VERY snowy.
The Harrisburg area is another possibility for you to consider, but, again, the Eastern 1/3 of PA can occasionally get clobbered by Nor'easters in the winter, and, yes, that could include Harrisburg. Otherwise outer suburban areas and/or "satellite cities" of Harrisburg might suit the bill for you. Check into a place like Carlisle or Elizabethtown (college town between Harrisburg and Lancaster). Lebanon is another option, but I think the population there skews older, and, to my knowledge, doesn't have a large LGBT presence. Harrisburg and Lancaster both have a decent LGBT scene, so if you lived in Elizabethtown, for example, you would be a 20-minute drive from either.
TL; DR: State College. Harrisburg. Carlisle. Elizabethtown. Lancaster.
I was going to say, "Welcome to Pennsylvania!" and "Good luck reconciling items 5, 8 and 11 on your list."
I suspect SteelCityRising (who, unless I'm mistaken, is a GBM like you and me) has recommended to you most of the right places to look in the state, but I'd also add upper Bucks County and parts of Chester County to the list. You will actually find homes in forested settings in the former, and if you're that concerned about the trees, you can always clear them close to your house if you buy a house on a forested lot there.
(BTW, a note on tree roots and pipes, something I learned from speaking with TreePhilly program sponsors: If a tree is sinking roots into a water pipe, the pipe was already damaged or leaking to begin with. Trees won't put roots down where they cannot sense water, and trees can't sense water flowing through impermeable metal, cement or plastic. Having trees close to your house in a rural area may not be so important, since the urban heat island effect is nonexistent there, but were you to live in the city, I'd recommend them for their ability to cut your heating and cooling bills because of the shade they provide.)
Bucks County is also where you will find New Hope, a longtime gay male playground. The vibe remains strong there, but all of the LGBT clubs and nightspots have closed. I hear rumors of one planning to reopen, but nothing more.
BTW, Lancaster's one LGBT dance club (the Tally-Ho) is also closed. However: There is a restaurant and bar called The Belvedere, just a few blocks north of downtown, that is gay-owned, and the scene around its upstairs bar is so gay it hurts.
Something you will find a lot of in Lancaster's suburbs are what I call "linear towns." These are roads that are lined with dense settlement (for a rural area), but behind the houses that line the road, you see farms and fields. This was a common pattern of settlement in the 18th century — Philadelphia's Germantown neighborhood, where I live, was originally a linear town — and it IMO distinguishes Pennsylvania, especially the parts of Southeast and South Central Pennsylvania settled by German Mennonites and Anabaptists (the so-called "Pennsylvania Dutch"), from other states.
Edited to add: I will, however, note that Upper Bucks may not meet your first requirement. I am, however, a little curious: Why the two-hour minimum requirement?
I was going to say, "Welcome to Pennsylvania!" and "Good luck reconciling items 5, 8 and 11 on your list."
I suspect SteelCityRising (who, unless I'm mistaken, is a GBM like you and me) has recommended to you most of the right places to look in the state, but I'd also add upper Bucks County and parts of Chester County to the list. You will actually find homes in forested settings in the former, and if you're that concerned about the trees, you can always clear them close to your house if you buy a house on a forested lot there.
(BTW, a note on tree roots and pipes, something I learned from speaking with TreePhilly program sponsors: If a tree is sinking roots into a water pipe, the pipe was already damaged or leaking to begin with. Trees won't put roots down where they cannot sense water, and trees can't sense water flowing through impermeable metal, cement or plastic. Having trees close to your house in a rural area may not be so important, since the urban heat island effect is nonexistent there, but were you to live in the city, I'd recommend them for their ability to cut your heating and cooling bills because of the shade they provide.)
Bucks County is also where you will find New Hope, a longtime gay male playground. The vibe remains strong there, but all of the LGBT clubs and nightspots have closed. I hear rumors of one planning to reopen, but nothing more.
BTW, Lancaster's one LGBT dance club (the Tally-Ho) is also closed. However: There is a restaurant and bar called The Belvedere, just a few blocks north of downtown, that is gay-owned, and the scene around its upstairs bar is so gay it hurts.
Something you will find a lot of in Lancaster's suburbs are what I call "linear towns." These are roads that are lined with dense settlement (for a rural area), but behind the houses that line the road, you see farms and fields. This was a common pattern of settlement in the 18th century — Philadelphia's Germantown neighborhood, where I live, was originally a linear town — and it IMO distinguishes Pennsylvania, especially the parts of Southeast and South Central Pennsylvania settled by German Mennonites and Anabaptists (the so-called "Pennsylvania Dutch"), from other states.
Edited to add: I will, however, note that Upper Bucks may not meet your first requirement. I am, however, a little curious: Why the two-hour minimum requirement?
Thank you for the affirmations, MarketStreetEl.
For the record I am a GWM (about as pasty as you can get while still being an Italian-American ).
I didn't provide the Lehigh Valley or Metro Philadelphia as options due to the requirement to be at least two hours away from the hometown stomping grounds in NJ. I also presumed rent and housing costs in the Lehigh Valley and Metro Philadelphia would generally be budget-prohibitive. Being across the state I also presumed that much of Bucks County, Upper MontCo, and Chester County were lily-white and predominantly family-oriented vs. having a good nightlife/dating scene for younger LGBTQ+ folks and/or folks of color in general.
I really think the sweet spot will be somewhere in South Central Pennsylvania. It is likely to be the least snowiest part of PA that is still at least two hours away from NJ. If I were an upwardly-mobile young LGBTQ+ African-American Harrisburg would be my first choice out of the medium-sized cities of that region. It seems to have the best Black middle-class in that part of PA. The OP would probably want to look into suburban Cumberland County to find more of a semi-rural atmosphere that is still proximate to big-box retail shopping; however, again, PA doesn't really have much of an overlap when it comes to "semi-rural/woodsy" and "ideal for a young LGBTQ+ person of color". I would personally be happy living in a walkable suburban center like Camp Hill or Mechanicsburg, but I am also white, and those communities are only about 4% and 3% Black, respectively.
You have a long wish list. But to distill it down to your core requirements, Centre County (State College) seems to the best fit. It's at the eastern edge of the Allegheny Ridge, has a diverse population and is the home of Penn State University with its cultural and sports venues. If you need a house on a little acreage, the northern or eastern parts of the county are where you should look. I-80 will take you into Morris County, NJ in about 3 hours.
I would second some of what SCR said above...State college and Carlisle would be near the top of my list to check the most of your boxes
BUT
State college goes from a small quaint town to a zoo every late augusts and returns to normal late april/early may. Living just OUTSIDE SC like on the way to pleasant gap or Lamar would be the ticket. But twice in my adult lifetime SC got 36, yes 36 inches of snow in 1 storm that lasted 2 days. If you are avoiding 25 inches of ANNUAL snow fall then every square inch west of the susquhanna is out on a normal year. Carlisle however and the cumberland valley in general gets far less snow and what they do get melts soon. Carlisle area is top of my list in PA, outside of the 2 homes I already have. Another area would be the Bellwood area just north of altoona, but snow starts to go up.
None of PA is 'midwestern' either in actuality or vibe. In fact, I dont think much feels midwestern until all of indiana and most of illinois is in the rear view mirror.
Erie would fit your bill except for the snow part. I have seen 6-7 FEET come down in one sitting. Dunno what Morris county NJ feels like to live there, only pass thru it. it is way too crowded for my tastes.
For the record I am a GWM (about as pasty as you can get while still being an Italian-American ).
I didn't provide the Lehigh Valley or Metro Philadelphia as options due to the requirement to be at least two hours away from the hometown stomping grounds in NJ. I also presumed rent and housing costs in the Lehigh Valley and Metro Philadelphia would generally be budget-prohibitive. Being across the state I also presumed that much of Bucks County, Upper MontCo, and Chester County were lily-white and predominantly family-oriented vs. having a good nightlife/dating scene for younger LGBTQ+ folks and/or folks of color in general.
I really think the sweet spot will be somewhere in South Central Pennsylvania. It is likely to be the least snowiest part of PA that is still at least two hours away from NJ. If I were an upwardly-mobile young LGBTQ+ African-American Harrisburg would be my first choice out of the medium-sized cities of that region. It seems to have the best Black middle-class in that part of PA. The OP would probably want to look into suburban Cumberland County to find more of a semi-rural atmosphere that is still proximate to big-box retail shopping; however, again, PA doesn't really have much of an overlap when it comes to "semi-rural/woodsy" and "ideal for a young LGBTQ+ person of color". I would personally be happy living in a walkable suburban center like Camp Hill or Mechanicsburg, but I am also white, and those communities are only about 4% and 3% Black, respectively.
I do think that item #5 on his list is going to be the hardest one for the OP to check off. Most of Pennsylvania's Black population is concentrated in its cities, especially 43% Black Philadelphia but also Pittsburgh, Allentown, Bethlehem, Erie, Harrisburg and Lancaster. You'll find non-trivial numbers in the suburbs of those cities — Senator-elect John Fetterman served as mayor of 75% Black Braddock, a depressed former steel mill town in Allegheny County — but it's worth noting here that the oft-mangled famous quote from James Carville about this state was actually
"From Paoli to Penn Hills, Pennsylvania is Alabama without the Blacks."
The problem arises from the requirement that the area be "semi-rural." Generally speaking, no matter where one goes in this state, the less densely built a place is, the less Black it is. State College and Centre County may be an exception to this rule simply because of the dominant role Penn State plays there, but otherwise, I think moshywilly will find that if they find a house that meets all their other requirements, socializing with other Blacks person-to-person will mean they have to drive to the nearest sizable city or town. If they're okay with that, though, the horizons widen.
2. Must have towns that give off a western/central Morris County vibe (you would know the vibe if you grew up in NJ yourself).
Vibing in my office in Flanders right now, where I've worked for 35 years (lived here for 5), and trying to think of a "western Morris County vibe" that includes lots of gay black people. The Blue Bird Inn in Budd Lake closed decades ago (before you were born) and eventually fell down and was recently bulldozed away. Not that it was particularly black AFAIK, but it was gay, and the point is nothing sprang up to take its place.
Have you looked at Pottstown or Phoenixville PA? They are both safely a little over 2 hours from Western Morris, according to Google Maps. And my recollection of the area is that is has that semi-rural exurban feel. The nearest SEPTA station is in Paoli, which is a short drive away, similar to the status of the Netcong NJ Transit station. After that, you're in Alabama as far as commuter rail goes.
I think I know what you mean when you talk about an absence of trees in certain parts of PA. Where it's flat, the land was cleared for farming. I get the same feeling in the coastal plains of New Jersey, e.g. Union and Middlesex counties, like something is missing. The trees are missing, and it's too flat.
Unfortunately you will have to compromise at least somewhat on your wish list, as I don't believe any metropolitan or micropolitan area in Pennsylvania will check all your boxes.
My first thought would be for you to consider State College, which is the home of Penn State University. For being in Central Pennsylvania the community is reasonably-diverse (i.e. you won't be the only educated person of color and stick out like a sore thumb), there would be ample younger LGBT singles for you to date, and your rent budget might be tight but doable, especially if you are willing to look in one of the surrounding suburban townships. Unfortunately I can't guarantee <25" of snow per winter. Depending upon the track of coastal Nor'easter systems and how they "wobble" as they move up State College could be in a 2"-4" range or a 1'-2' range. For example in 2010 we had "Snowmaggeddon", which was the biggest storm in recent memory. I lived in Virginia at the time, and we had 3' of snow on the ground between that storm and another storm that had also struck around the same time. State College, PA was buried, too.
Otherwise you will find cheap and scenic in places like Altoona, Johnstown, or DuBois; however, you will likely be the only educated young LGBT single person of color in these communities and will feel socioculturally isolated. The Lehigh Valley (Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton) is too close to your former NJ stomping grounds. Erie is VERY snowy.
The Harrisburg area is another possibility for you to consider, but, again, the Eastern 1/3 of PA can occasionally get clobbered by Nor'easters in the winter, and, yes, that could include Harrisburg. Otherwise outer suburban areas and/or "satellite cities" of Harrisburg might suit the bill for you. Check into a place like Carlisle or Elizabethtown (college town between Harrisburg and Lancaster). Lebanon is another option, but I think the population there skews older, and, to my knowledge, doesn't have a large LGBT presence. Harrisburg and Lancaster both have a decent LGBT scene, so if you lived in Elizabethtown, for example, you would be a 20-minute drive from either.
TL; DR: State College. Harrisburg. Carlisle. Elizabethtown. Lancaster.
I would not live in Altoona, Johnstown, or DuBois, but I looked them up on Google Maps. They are perfect for me in terms of nature, but too rural and too isolated, but I will keep those places in mind for visiting if I move to PA. The Erie area is too rural for me too and too much snow. Southeastern PA seems like my best choice. It seems like it is hard to avoid 25 inches of annual snowfall. My town in NJ was not on a high elevation at all and we got that annual amount of snowfall except we had 2 feet of snow one time in 2018, which took too long to clean up. My parents lived in a different town that had a high elevation and snowfall was more than the 25 inch annual snowfall we got in my hometown. I am used to the Nor'Easters though.
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