Pennsylvania Roads (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Reading: house, college, tax)

[psulions2007]

Reader's Digest (would provide link but not sure if it is allowed) recently ranked PA's roads as 47th best in the nation.

Now, as much as I don't really think we should rank below Oklahoma (46th), I must agree that PA's road system needs an overhaul in many places...particularly the turnpike. Yes, it's nice to keep the general feel of it being the nation's first long-distance freeway, but the design technology is way out of date. It is simply too narrow, and in many places, there are not enough lanes carrying a large amount of traffic (Reading to Harrisburg comes easily to mind).

With that said, there are bright spots in PA's roads... the refurbished US 22 between Altoona and Pittsburgh, US 322 between State College and Harrisburg, Interstate 99, US 15/Future 99 north of Williamsport, Interstate 90, and many state roads (my favorites- PA 26 and PA 45).

To me, it feels that maybe too much emphasis was placed on the most heavily traveled roads (I am also not a big fan of I-376, I-76 in Philly, and I-95), though unfortunately for PA, the many, many structually deficient bridges should be seen as a problem.


Any thoughts guys? I know Ed wants to toll I-80 to help fund transportation...but it seems like it shouldn't have to come to that...and it seems like transportation funding leans way too much on tolls from the turnpike as it is (that money should, right now, go to widening the TPK).

[Craziaskowboi]

Here's some information regarding the Pennsylvania Turnpike overhaul.

The problem with the Parkways East and West in Pittsburgh and the Schuylkill Expressway in Philadelphia is that they were all built before President Dwight Eisenhower created the Interstate Highway System. As a result, those roads simply don't have the right of way necessary to expand, and acquiring it in an urban area would be insanely expensive. And that doesn't even factor in having to widen two sets of tunnels in Pittsburgh. At least the on- and off-ramps in Pittsburgh have been lengthened, and they've resurfaced almost the entire Parkway East in the last year or two. They're making lemonade.

Other than those three stretches of highway, I'd argue that the highways in Pennsylvania are in better shape than most people think. Everybody talks about how "the moment you cross into Pennsylvania, the road surface slams down and becomes a bunch of potholes," but the last time I drove up I-79 from West Virginia, you could tell that you entered Pennsylvania because the asphalt turned to concrete, and that was it. There was just a slight bump at the state line from one smooth surface to another. Really, I-79 in general was smooth, at least the parts I drove from the West Virginia state line up to U.S. 422 in Butler County. Even the notorious stretch between the Ohio River and the Parkway North has been reconstructed.

[BPP1999]

Here's a link to a similar thread about the PA Turnpike.


//www.city-data.com/forum/penns...-turnpike.html

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

Here's a link to a similar thread about the PA Turnpike.


//www.city-data.com/forum/penns...-turnpike.html

That topic includes my factual reply about the condition of the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

[Rtom45]

Last summer we drove to Colorado to visit our daughter. We drove thru Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, and Colorado. As much as I hate to admit it, Pennsylvania's roads were the best.

[Ohiogirl81]

I think 47th is kinda generous.

[ki0eh]

There's a lot of politically motivated investment in roads leading nowhere in the guise of Appalachian Development.

Just completed was a refit of US 15 in surely the next hub of the universe (Cogan House Township, Lycoming County) from four lanes with a couple of intersections to four lane entirely controlled access. When this was only contemplated a letter writer to the Wellsboro Gazette asked "Why are they spending $50 million so we can get to Williamsport one minute faster?" That was before the price tag rose to $60 million.

In the meantime the remaining knot of traffic north of Harrisburg on US 15 (the Shamokin Dam/Hummels Wharf "Selinsgrove strip") languishes where the Selinsgrove bypass stopped in circa 1964. That particular part of US 15 didn't get designated as an Appalachian Development highway, you see.

Although one must admit that the price tag would be much much higher to expand the Parkway East or Schuylkill Expressway.

[Craziaskowboi]

Originally Posted by ki0eh

There's a lot of politically motivated investment in roads leading nowhere in the guise of Appalachian Development.

Just completed was a refit of US 15 in surely the next hub of the universe (Cogan House Township, Lycoming County) from four lanes with a couple of intersections to four lane entirely controlled access. When this was only contemplated a letter writer to the Wellsboro Gazette asked "Why are they spending $50 million so we can get to Williamsport one minute faster?" That was before the price tag rose to $60 million.

In the meantime the remaining knot of traffic north of Harrisburg on US 15 (the Shamokin Dam/Hummels Wharf "Selinsgrove strip") languishes where the Selinsgrove bypass stopped in circa 1964. That particular part of US 15 didn't get designated as an Appalachian Development highway, you see.

Although one must admit that the price tag would be much much higher to expand the Parkway East or Schuylkill Expressway.

Expanding the Schuylkill Expressway in Philadelphia, or the Parkways East and West in Pittsburgh, would cost something close to the "Big Dig" in Boston, I imagine, prompting some stupid Dateline NBC crap about what a "waste of tax dollars" it is. Never mind that the roads, uh, really really need their capacity expanded 'cuz they're in, you know, MAJOR ****ING URBAN AREAS!!!

Furthermore, there are many areas in rural Georgia that have had their capacity expanded from two lanes to four in the last 10 years, and nobody ******* about that. Most U.S. highways in Georgia have been expanded so, and most of the rest are slated to be, yet I don't hear anybody talking about what a "waste" it is. I think it's great, actually -- and I want the same for Pennsylvania.

[BPP1999]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Furthermore, there are many areas in rural Georgia that have had their capacity expanded from two lanes to four in the last 10 years, and nobody ******* about that. Most U.S. highways in Georgia have been expanded so, and most of the rest are slated to be, yet I don't hear anybody talking about what a "waste" it is. I think it's great, actually -- and I want the same for Pennsylvania.

OK, great, and I agree. Do you know WHY this can't happen in PA? Is it because the Turnpike Commission is an unecessary entity draining too much toll revenue for a bloated bureaucracy? Is it because too much money in PA is spent on healthcare and pensions for state workers, so there's less $ to go around for real projects? Is it because our most vocal politicians seem to be brainless, visionless morons? Is it a combination of these factors?

[Ohiogirl81]

Is it because our most vocal politicians seem to be brainless, visionless morons?

This one. Although the other reasons are spot on, too, especially the Turnpike Commission being an unnecessary, overstuffed, save-our-worthless-jobs-at-all-costs bureaucracy.