You need $100K+ a year for a solid middle class lifestyle (funds, paying)

[expatChicagoan]

Originally Posted by unseengundam

Here is what I think most people consider a middle class lifestyle:

-Retire with same lifestyle as pre-retirement
-1-2 years worth of spending money in cash
-Enough money to buy a nice single family house (McMansion)
-Be able afford to put kids through university
-Money to buy new cars every 3-5 years
-Afford nice vacations each year (probably $10k+)
-Money to buy latest smartphone every 2 years,computers, and other electronics

I don't consider that a middle class lifestyle, but my life doesn't include:

- McMansion
- putting kids through college. I will put my son (currently aged 10)through community college, while he lives at home and works to save money to put himself through college for the final two years.
- new car every 3-5 years. I bought a new car when we moved to Texas (needed a second car), and I intend to keep that car for at least 10 years.
- I have never taken a $10k plus vacation. My last vacation was 3 years ago, and it cost about $2k. I take vacation time every year, but don't often go anywhere.

[jtur88]

I took an $8K vacation once. My wife and I flew around the world, we were gone 8 months. Spent time in 15 countries in Asia. But no McMansion, smartphone, new car. Thousand dollars a month, including plane fare and all ground living and travel expenses. If you want to pay that much for a new TV set, that's your call. My new TV a few months ago was $139, so I got them both for $8,139.

If you go through the OP's list and pick an item or two that you want, you can easily afford it if you blow off the ones you don't want. If you want them ALL, that's a problem to refer to your psychological counselor, not your financial counselor.

[Wolfpacker]

How is the OP's idea "middle class"? That is at least upper middle class at least, or middle class "Keeping Up With the Joneses" through debt financing.

$10,000 vacations on a regular basis? What kind of vacations are we talking about here?

[hindsight2020]

Like I said, take out the vacation from the list and that IS the middle class expectation of a lifestyle. It is what it is. Is it reflective of what the supposed middle class can afford in 2011? Of course not! And that's the point, the middle class are a bunch of working class stiffs stretching the credit to retain a nominal semblance of the lifestyle of their proverbial "airbolt a nut for $30/hr w full medical in 1981" parents. The fact they have to make either/or choices within that list is what makes them working class compared to their parents. What's sticky is that these people have a higher educational achievement level than their parents, and attain a lesser living standard. the social contract broke. College is a high school diploma, a mere pre-requisite to beg for a job. The fact a non-college degree holder fares worse than degree holders does not mitigate the fact you're still manning the proverbial fryer with a master's degree (and by consequence, not attaining the list either!). Working stiffs.

If the middle class were told you're never gonna get rich doing this, you're never even going to afford half that list from here on forward, you would see a huge SOCIAL SHIFT in this country. Our cultural adoration for hyper-productivity and toiling 60/wk for the american dream would vanish. Because as deluded as the american populace is regarding lifestyle expectations, they ain't gonna do it for free. Money talks.

P.S. Keeping up with the joneses is NOT a caveat to "middle class". It is inclusive of the definition of middle class in 2011. You are not middle class without "keeping up with the joneses" as part of the definition. I'd know, because I live a lower middle class lifestyle even though I could max the ol credit lines out and meet the list up there...and have no savings. But people don't aspire to driving 12 year old cars (my exwife didn't, which is why she left me and the 'indignity' of my frugality), qualify for homes with one income (thence a smaller home) and make holiday travel the only luxury. I mean "we went to college damn it!" That's a quote from the dearly departed by the way. People don't go in the hole on student loans to live "lower middle" fellas, people are chasing the dream. This is gonna be a painful couple decades for GEn Y, as our expectations are broken down and reset. Middle class is disappearing. Working class is the new standard. Upper class will still do alright (or what people call upper middle..there's nothing "middle" about being able to actually meet that list and have assets/liquid to retire to the same standard).

[TylerJAX]

All of the "wealthy" people(net worth of 1-3 million) that I personally know drive Hondas/Toyotas that are up to 8 years old and don't take expensive vacations.

[Themanwithnoname]

Originally Posted by unseengundam

I have to lot of so called middle class in American really can't afford that lifestyle. I think you need make over $100k+, even in an cheaper place like Dallas. For expensive areas, like NYC, you might need like $500k a year! Most people in middle class would should be called the "working class" instead. The middle class lifestyle has many expenses (listed below) and it can get expensive.

Here is what I think most people consider a middle class lifestyle:

-Retire with same lifestyle as pre-retirement
-1-2 years worth of spending money in cash
-Enough money to buy a nice single family house (McMansion)
-Be able afford to put kids through university
-Money to buy new cars every 3-5 years
-Afford nice vacations each year (probably $10k+)
-Money to buy latest smartphone every 2 years,computers, and other electronics

The excepted middle class lifestyle is NOT really frugal. When you look at this list, you can tell how expensive it can get. Being able to spend a lot of your money while still saving for retirement requires a high income.

A lot of people living this lifestyle on has no retirement saving and/or tons of debts. These people are really working class can't / shouldn't try to go for this lifestyle. Of course people making less than $100K (like me) can save for retirement by living more frugal lifestyle. However, you will definitely miss many middle class niceties like brand new cars every few years!

Obviously by the responses... you are wrong.

[hindsight2020]

Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname

Obviously by the responses... you are wrong.

City data is full of statistical outliers. This place is like "Shawshank Prison"..everybody's innocent here, didn't ya know?

I don't consider my economic attitudes reflective of the majority around me. I'm on CD. I consider people here to have similar attitudes in terms of being reflective about these topics, even if we don't agree on specific points. Ergo, I don't consider CD in general reflective of the general population. So I still think the OP is right about his assertion of what the peanut gallery strives for, even as "middle class".

[user_id]

Originally Posted by hindsight2020

I think sans the 10K vacations, he shacked it dead center. And that is the point. The self-identified middle classers are not middle class ANYMORE, they're working class. Their parents USED to be middle class. They're working class now. One quarter's worth of paychecks away from the WIC and food stamp line and the payday loans.

"Middle-class" as become a catch-all term for everyone that isn't poor or rich and as a result it doesn't have much meaning sociologically.

Anyhow, sociologically speaking the middle-class has grown, it was smaller 40~50 years ago.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

To a point, I agree that many people described as middle class really are working class. Of course, in my book, if you can't pay all your basic living expenses with investment income, you're working class no matter how high your income.

This definition doesn't match anything you'll see in sociology, what you're describing is more or less what it means to be upper-class.

[manderly6]

I don't agree that what you are describing is the definition of middle class.