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Fair enough. I don't want to go off on the tangent of 2 working parents vs one, and the benefits of each. That wasn't where I was trying to take the discussion nor what this thread was about.
My original point was that kids are unavoidably expensive. I don't agree with your logic that yours aren't because you don't pay childcare. In example 2 there is a large cash outlay for the kid. But even in example 1 there is a huge opportunity cost. A parent is giving up a 40k/year job or whatever they could be earning in the workplace to stay home with the kids. That is expensive IMO.
You just have to ask what you value more. Squeezing out a few more bucks, or sacrificing a little more to spend more time w your kids that you'll never get back....dunno, you tell me.
Fair enough. I don't want to go off on the tangent of 2 working parents vs one, and the benefits of each. That wasn't where I was trying to take the discussion nor what this thread was about.
My original point was that kids are unavoidably expensive. I don't agree with your logic that yours aren't because you don't pay childcare. In example 2 there is a large cash outlay for the kid. But even in example 1 there is a huge opportunity cost. A parent is giving up a 40k/year job or whatever they could be earning in the workplace to stay home with the kids. That is expensive IMO.
Right, but you would also be spending a large part of that income to keep a child/children in daycare (for starters). Either way, you are screwed by having a kid financially, it is just a question of how screwed.
It is the reason I am not having more than one. Kids are just too expensive.
One way to save on child care is to find in-home babysitting which is better for the kids than being in a loud or structured day care. Parents can alternate shifts so that one is home most of the time.
Day care costs drop after the children start school. For a while, they can cost very little and the next is when you add them to your car's liability insurance.
When you look at retirees, it really doesn't make any difference how many kids they had --- as long as their kids grew up and became independent adults when they should have. You can have a 21 year old that moved out and pays his own way, pays his own tuition and car and everything because you taught him a work ethic, or you can have a 30 year old that you still have to buy video games for him to play.
One way to save on child care is to find in-home babysitting which is better for the kids than being in a loud or structured day care. Parents can alternate shifts so that one is home most of the time.
Day care costs drop after the children start school. For a while, they can cost very little and the next is when you add them to your car's liability insurance.
When you look at retirees, it really doesn't make any difference how many kids they had --- as long as their kids grew up and became independent adults when they should have. You can have a 21 year old that moved out and pays his own way, pays his own tuition and car and everything because you taught him a work ethic, or you can have a 30 year old that you still have to buy video games for him to play.
I wish daycare costs dropped, but I haven't found that the difference is anything to write home about. Maybe $100-$150 a month difference during the school year and easily the same amount as before during the summer. I was surprised too when I looked into it. It is why I still SAH with a 7 year old.
My state has a crackdown on unlicensed providers which is basically what I always used before I moved out here as it was all I could afford. I never had any problems. Here it is hard to find anyone who isn't licensed and the prices reflect that. I have no family here and even back where I did, everyone had full-time jobs, so that was never an option.
You just have to ask what you value more. Squeezing out a few more bucks, or sacrificing a little more to spend more time w your kids that you'll never get back....dunno, you tell me.
It's not that simple. The answer depends on many factors and is different for every family. There isn't a right answer by the way, even though the way you're wording the question implies there is. If you really are only earning a few bucks working minimum wage somewhere then yeah I guess it can be pretty simple.
Well, I completely omitted club swimming that costs about $500/month for two kids, and occasional $1000+ for a trip to competitions - we live in Colorado and all higher level competitions are on the coast, where we have to fly. Those are still more optional expenses, in my mind. High School sport is less of a choice if you want your kid involved.
To those who mentioned food expenses - yes, yes, it will change just a tiny bit when your toddler becomes a 15 year old teenager. Sometimes I feel like food just evaporates from our fridge. You go to the store, spend $150, get the fridge stocked up - next day it's almost empty. And yes, I cook a lot, so it's not just expensive junk.
Competitive swimmers eat a lot! I had two of them through high school.
Reasonable choice, but I personally wouldn't have it any other way.
I know you're joking -- but it really isn't a reasonable choice -- not having children because of money. Most people really want children, and make room for them in their lives and manage somehow.
We never wanted kids, it didn't look in any way enjoyable or rewarding. It looked like a ton of thankless hard grueling work at the end where you hoped to heavens they left, or you threatened to kick them out at 18, whether or not you actually prepared them to be out at 18.
Just found out yesterday a friend's 15 year old daughter took off WEEKS ago, so more heartbreak for them.
But money NEVER entered into our decision to not have kids. It was all the wonderful role models that did it for us.
We live in an EXCELLENT school district, but the elementary school zoned for us has starting bringing in low income kids from the northern part of the city south of us - that has brought scores down.
Why are you so concerned about average scores? You are aware that the scores a particular child achieves are correlated with the socio-economic characteristics and approach to education in the household they come from rather than the average scores at the school they attend, right?
It's not that simple. The answer depends on many factors and is different for every family. There isn't a right answer by the way, even though the way you're wording the question implies there is. If you really are only earning a few bucks working minimum wage somewhere then yeah I guess it can be pretty simple.
How is it not that simple? If you are committed to doing it it can be done. I'm really curious now, what 'prevented' you and your SO from not doing it? Did he/she put the foot down and say 'no'?
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