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LOL, a few examples to the contrary do not disprove the general rule. I never said it was absolute. However, most people make more money if they have a degree than if they don't. In fact, about 1 million more in their lifetime comparing someone with a masters to someone with a high school diploma.
Yes, there are some who don't need an education but that doesn't change that an education does change outcomes for most. It is stupid to argue that one should choose to not educate their children because some people manage without an education. Odds have it the educated will do better than the uneducated and whether you use your degree or not, you count among the educated. An education is about more than just training for a job.
So now I guess it's up to YOU to prove this 'general rule' (What is this mythical rule by the way? That everyone without a degree is a failure, or that the parents must pay for the kids school and use that as an excuse to be a drain on society for decades?)
Secondly I NEVER SAID your kids shouldn't get any 'higher education'. I meerly said it would be foolish to put teir college above your retirement planning, and that they could get a degree without you planning (Through lack of planning) on dragging them and other taxpayers down from your lack of planning.
Look at statistics. In general, the uneducated earn less and are more likely to require help. I don't want that for my kids. I owe them better than that.
You are free to live your life as you will. I owe it to my children to give them better odds.
What about how you owe your children not to have to support you while they are trying to raise their own children?
When you can't buy groceries, you're not thinking about saving for retirement. Many people barely make enough to eek out an existence.
See what I said earlier about cutting little luxuries... vast majority of people are capable, and unwilling.
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
It is not YOUR place to tell me what I can and cannot do. You are not living my life and you don't know my finances. And, past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
I expect to spend $100K on children's educations in the next 6 years and that's if I can get off cheap so, no I won't be contributing to a 401K for a while. When you're a parent, you do what you gotta do. I owe my kids that much.
So it's not the business of those who will be FORCED to give you money when you are suffering the consequences (Or more aptly they will suffer) of your decisions.
I have an obligation to both society and the children I brought into society here. I owe both that my kids get the best education possible. And I cannot secure my own future at the expense of my children's future. What kind of mom would I be if I did that?
You will not have helped secure your children's future if you end up depending on them for support in your old age.
Then again your government could do what ours did, forcing employers to pay superannuation for their employees as part of their salary package, then guaranteeing that super, and topping it up for you if you have a low income.
I might quibble with the details of Australia's plan, but the U.S. never does anything that sensible or comprehensive.
Bad analogy. In this case, it's one or the other. If I keep the money, they don't get an education. So it would be like me putting on my mask and just letting them die because there will be nothing for them because I kept it.
How is leaving my kids without an education so I can retire helping them in the slightest? How is it helping society to shove my uneducated kids off on society?
Sorry, I owe it to my kids and to society to educate them....so let's hope I'm healthy enough, long enough to take care of my retirement after that.
Why don't they get an education if you don't pay? Can they not get student loans? I'm not saying they're an ideal option, but by definition, you're not in an ideal situation. I may not have all the info, but it seems that this is not the black and white situation you're making it out to be. Student loans for the kids might end up being the lesser evil, provided the dollar amount isn't too high.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 05-12-2013 at 01:20 PM..
If your friend is collecting a small SS check, he didn't make much money all those decades, so what do you expect?
He actually made more than the SS check would indicate. He had a small business and I suspect he didn't pay into SS. Even if he had done that much, he'd be much better off.
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Originally Posted by freemkt
Does he own his home?
No, always rented.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt
Its a whole lot easier getting by on a small SS check when you don't have to pay rent or a mortgage than it is when you're paying half your income to keep a roof over your head.
I agree. As far as managing money went, he almost always made the wrong choice. Always was trapped in short term thinking. Also had some deep emotional/psychological issues.....Deep down he believed he was a bad person and didn't deserve anything (F'd up... I know, but that's a whole other post).
what do you think about people who don't save any money for their old age.?
.
What I think is those of us who have delayed gratification, scrimped and save our whole lives, will be called upon by politicians and the media to pony up more of our savings and income to help these poor, poor victims of the unfair capitalistic system.
The media will do story after story about some elderly person living in substandard subsidized housing, not eating enough proper food and then cut those of us living large in our paid off homes, driving our paid off cars and enjoying hitting the fairways and ask, is this fair that SS alone doesn't give them a better living?
Of course not! So you and I will have to pay out more of our savings for those whole didn't win "life's lottery" like we did.
I know many many MANY people who made it thru college by working and paying for it themselves. I know its a strange concept, but people do it all the time. Parents do not owe their kids a college education. It is part of the "entitled generation" Im afraid. To spend your own retirement to fund kids' college is foolhardy. You will live to regret it.
Say $5K/Year with 5% returns for 30 years (40 is a tad high IMHO)
That's $370,413.66
If you had a pension or Social insecurity, you could take out $15,000/year to supplement your income (Assuming no gains or losses) for just over 24 years.
Not ideal, but it can make all the difference.
If you get matching... it's $208/Month. ($416 total)
I know people with cable bills that are nearly $200/Month! (Who have money problems!)
I'm not saving 5k, but I'm 23 I figure ill work until 65. 42 years. Either way it is a pretty penny. Ill take 370k over nothing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
LOL, a few examples to the contrary do not disprove the general rule. I never said it was absolute. However, most people make more money if they have a degree than if they don't. In fact, about 1 million more in their lifetime comparing someone with a masters to someone with a high school diploma.
Yes, there are some who don't need an education but that doesn't change that an education does change outcomes for most. It is stupid to argue that one should choose to not educate their children because some people manage without an education. Odds have it the educated will do better than the uneducated and whether you use your degree or not, you count among the educated. An education is about more than just training for a job.
Noone is saying that children don't need an education. Were saying if you can't afford it as you obviously can't if your going to "work until I die" just to fund them education then don't! Can't they work....loans. BS. Your risking your whole life in misery, when they can easily pay their own way or get loans. It doesn't matter if you make 300k a year, there are still loans for your kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Please link to the post where I said you need 7 mil to retire.....good luck...I didn't.
You sound like a rich person who had their rich parents pay your way in college and figure rich people obviously pay their own kids eeucation. I hope I'm wrong though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Look at statistics. In general, the uneducated earn less and are more likely to require help. I don't want that for my kids. I owe them better than that.
You are free to live your life as you will. I owe it to my children to give them better odds.
Thanks for not saying anything about the fact that you have something against people who are uneducated.
I know many many MANY people who made it thru college by working and paying for it themselves. I know its a strange concept, but people do it all the time. Parents do not owe their kids a college education. It is part of the "entitled generation" Im afraid. To spend your own retirement to fund kids' college is foolhardy. You will live to regret it.
How old are these people? What kind of wages did they earn at that time? What was their tuition? I hate posts like this because people conveniently forget college tuition has gone up A LOT more than wages over the last 50 years. Heck, I graduated from a public U in the mid 1990s and the tuition has skyrocketed since then, but the wages college students earn have definitely not.
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Odds have it the educated will do better than the uneducated and whether you use your degree or not, you count among the educated. An education is about more than just training for a job.
