Live the good life on $20k/year - retire in your 20s or 30s? (electronic, raise)
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Why not? I am almost there in another year. The big factor is where you plant yourself. Finding an area with low real estate taxes, utilities and fuel prices. Not the northeast or westcoast, that's for sure. Midwest and south more probable.
Yep location is key. Property tax on some of the 2br homes just outside of the city are as low as $500/year. I thought it might be kinda cool to take a 800 sq ft home like this and make it super energy efficient...even add some solar panels....maybe get the home's operating cost under $100/month.
It's possible, we only spend 400/mo on food with 4 in the family by buying specials and rarely going out. We cook most of our food. Where we live I can retire with kids on 30K/yr. Home.car paid for. low taxes and utilities. But I also have military healthcare.
Are you in the south like me? $400/month for 4 people sounds really good. Can I ask where you shop for food most often?
I have a lot of room to lower my food budget but it's hard to give up some of the junk food.
How great is it though? I did a quick search, and it appears 15% don't make it to 65. I'm not sure how accurate that is though. There is also the issue of what will retirement age be in 40 years? Could it be 72 or even 75? Will we have retirement?
According to here - 85.8% of males work over 40 hours per week. According to here the average drive time is 25 minutes.
If we say 45 hrs/week is common and factor in driving time, that's nearly a 50 hour work week. This assumes your job completely stops when you walk out of your employer's door.
I found this too:
So I think it would be interesting to know average work hours in relation to money made.
My guess is that the ratio of work hours to income follows a linear progression up to a certain income ($300,000?) where it starts to fall off.
My dad worked 40 hours a week. He was an electrical engineer. I am not sure if he ever missed a day in his life. But he worked, and we had a comfy childhood as far as all of our needs being met, and we had money left over.
He retired at 56.
He's still alive and in his 70s.
Now what's your argument? Are you implying that he is incapable of enjoying his years of retirement from 56 on? He worked his entire adult life, he even started working as a teen. He is one of the most responsible people I have ever known.
I say again, he retired at 56.
Who says you have to wait to retire at 70 something? If you put the work in NOW, you can retire earlier but still live very well off because you didn't sit back on your haunches and think mediocre was acceptable.
My dad worked 40 hours a week. He was an electrical engineer. I am not sure if he ever missed a day in his life. But he worked, and we had a comfy childhood as far as all of our needs being met, and we had money left over.
He retired at 56.
He's still alive and in his 70s.
Now what's your argument? Are you implying that he is incapable of enjoying his years of retirement from 56 on? He worked his entire adult life, he even started working as a teen. He is one of the most responsible people I have ever known.
I say again, he retired at 56.
Who says you have to wait to retire at 70 something? If you put the work in NOW, you can retire earlier but still live very well off because you didn't sit back on your haunches and think mediocre was acceptable.
Who says you have to wait to retire at 56? Why are people so in awe of investors of any age who don't work but can retire with passive income NOW and live very well off yet so much vitriol/disdain is directed at the OP who can retire with his passive income NOW and still live very well off to him because a minimalistic lifestyle is acceptable to him?
Who says you have to wait to retire at 56? Why are people so in awe of investors of any age who don't work but can retire with passive income NOW and live very well off yet so much vitriol/disdain is directed at the OP who can retire with his passive income NOW and still live very well off to him because a minimalistic lifestyle is acceptable to him?
The point is, how are you going to retire and live comfortably the rest of your days on 20k? That's the point.
It's possible, we only spend 400/mo on food with 4 in the family by buying specials and rarely going out. We cook most of our food. Where we live I can retire with kids on 30K/yr. Home.car paid for. low taxes and utilities. But I also have military healthcare. We are going minimalist, quit direct TV(Mostly garbage channels anyway) went free HDTV and occasionally buy a program series that we really like. Got rid of lan line, grow veggies in spring/summer and can them, have chickens for eggs, down to one good cell phone(no contracts) and one $15 card plan phone, I hate phones anyway, its a big scam. Don't have to buy charcoal or lighter fluid for barbeques, have plenty of woodland and leaves to burn and a wood stove to help bring winter utility costs down. Oh did I mention I can't see my neighbors! These city dwellers just don't have a clue. We have lived both urban and rural and our happiness lies in simplicity and freedom.
That's the status symbol that rubs people the wrong way. You are lucky though, everyone should have socialized healthcare like military healthcare but that's for politics and controversies haha.
The point is, how are you going to retire and live comfortably the rest of your days on 20k? That's the point.
Lots of retirees can live comfortable on 20K without a house payment if they like hiking and camping activities that don't cost much, that's the whole point of a minimalistic lifestyle but it's not for everyone. Personally I can't live on 20K but doesn't mean the OP can't. I don't like hiking but I like driving and staying in hotels so I need to live on 40K because that's comfortable "to me" but other retirees need 80K because they like boating and riding horses. And so on and so on.
Some pages back, someone came on here and said what he does...according to them. It was rather detailed, and I questioned it in a post.
No one seems to have read that one, and it was completely ignored by everyone else, even the OP. The OP didn't even acknowledge or deny. You know, if someone accused me of what that poster did, I would stand up and say how they were wrong. Nary a peep.
Is that post only visible to me?
Shame on you! I've been a lurker for 3 years and you made me sign up. This is the best thread ever, even better then nep321 in the CT forum.
That post you refer to was not about EH, it was about the person who makes $200k/yr at age 24 working for a worldwide banking company.
Once I was reading comments online from a local newspaper where a doctor said no one can survive on $14/hr. yet there I was at a job that paid just that. Still have that job, and a few others. I don't work a traditional 40 hr work week. I probably do average 40 hours a week when all is said and done though, but I have some financial goals, and two exh's that believed in buy now, pay later. Trust me, once I'm a little more where I want to be, I'm cutting back as well.
Who's dumb idea was it that a work week should be 40 hours? I'd prefer to be "working" around my house or car.
I live in southern New England and our COL is high
I have a mortgage. My house is listed at 1244 sq ft. Sometimes I'd like something a little bigger, but what is really like is more land (space) and a few outbuildings.
My car is 28 years old. I put a few hundred into it a year. This includes tune ups, oil changes and property taxes. I know people who pay more in just auto property taxes than I do for a years worth of everything. Or one car payment! One year I had to buy both snows and summer tires in a 4 month span. Kind of sucked, but the set of snows had lasted 10 years so I can't complain. The only thing killing me now is the damn liquid and granular road salt. I'm having a hard time keeping up with the rust. A boss sometimes asks me when I'm getting a newer car. I tell her I will when she regularly arrives at events before me. My last car payment was in 1992. The car I'm driving now cost me $350 10 years ago. I put 9-12k miles on it a year.
I bring home about 1/4, or less, of what my last husband and I made combined. Same house. Yet I now have a savings account and yes, some months are tight as one of my jobs is seasonal, but I make it. When I was with him, we paid out a minimum of $700/mo in credit card bills and lived completely paycheck to paycheck.
I have private health insurance that I pay for, not subsidized. I've had some health issues this year and much has been out of pocket. Some of my issues were caused from long term effects of a miserable job. I was so bored and depressed I'd stop at the store on the way in and buy 1-2 lbs of candy in bulk. I'd start eating it around 9am. To counteract the resulting crash, I'd pop a diet pill and some Red Bull. I did this for 3.5 years. The last few years of my marriage finished me off. Stress is not good for anyone. Being tied in a cubicle all day and having to be there certain hours, 5 days a week, stresses me out.
I have two cats that get premium food and the best medical care. They come before me.
For food, I know I can live on $100-$125/mo by watching sales and eating a lot of pasta, tuna and bread. This is not the best diet for me so I spend a bit more now.
I don't have kids. Never wanted them, it just wasn't for me. Had a step daughter once and that was enough drama.
I have more clothes than I should. I used to work in a sporting shop and got great deals. I'm paring down a bit. Sometimes I'll pick up a set of jeans at Goodwill but most of the time I get them on eBay. I know exactly what I want and hate shopping and they're cheaper too.
I bike. A lot. My bikes were from the sporting shop days. My shorts wear out so I watch winter sales and pick up 2-3 pairs at a time. I also grab deals on my sports nutrition when I can. Tires, yikes, just as much as car tires but I haven't raced in a few years so I really stretch them out and hope I don't blow out a sidewall in the woods.
I own an iPhone (purchased mostly with saved Christmas money), iPad (bonus, bday gift and some of my own savings) and a laptop which my business bought 5+ years ago. I expect I'll need another in the next year or two, but I had slowly upgraded the RAM, hard drive and OS to stretch it as long as possible. Those are extravagances..... Yet I waited 4 years for the phone and 2 for the ipad. How many of your kids have the latest and greatest?
In 2013 I bought a camera. I had always had DSLR on my short list of wants, but decided for a super zoom. Photography has always been a passion of mine and while I love the old compact I have, the super zoom is fantastic. I just won a spot of honor in an online contest. The compact still goes on rides with me.
I got the camera for a trip I took. A week on an island off the eastern coast. Can't wait to go back. I drove there in my old car, probably about 1000 miles all told. There is so much of the US I want to explore by car or bike.
I say this to let you know I'm not denying myself with my frugal lifestyle. I have basic cable though I'll probably drop that as I only really watch network tv. No landline. I don't like "artificial" air so my house is cold in the winter and warm in the summer. (I hate winter but can't stand walking into a place that's above 65 degrees. I feel like I'm going to pass out. I do love the heat of summer though. Go figure.) I have led a pretty full life and am exited about the rest of it. In no way do I feel I'm denying myself by not making 50k, and I'm sure many of you would scoff and say that's too low to live on.
In case you're wondering, I have a CC I'm still paying off from my last marriage. My biz has one too, back from when I'd take biz money to pay household expenses during the marriage. That said, expect for some business printing that gets charged to the card and paid off when my client pays me, I have not used a CC in well over 2 years. I'm hoping they'll both be completely paid off in a couple of years, then I'll keep a couple for emergencies...... But my true goal is to have emergency money in the bank.
I make a bit more than EH does (not even twice as much though) and my expenses are higher. I'd be in heaven if I was putting that much away! And once those CCs are paid off, I'll be socking more away. So I can have fun and be less reliant on the man!
I'm nearing 50. From the time I was in college, I knew I wasn't cut out for a corporate job. I did want to work, but I was always intrigued by people who had small businesses. I started a couple, but this was prior to Internet and it was tough to keep them going with the traditional job I was expected to do. The job that about killed me was my only corporate stint. Right now I collect 3 paychecks, have my own business and do a lot of odd jobs. Yet I manage to go for nice rides before work as I am really not required to be in at any specific time. I can leave early, take time off. No benefits, but it works for me. I would never go back to the rat race again.
I wold love to move to a state with a lower cost of living (and less winter!). That's my dream.
What happens if Eddie needs more money? Gee....... Bet he can pick up a quick job. You see, there are tons of jobs out there. Problem is many think they are beneath them. Would I want to work 40 hours a week at minimum wage? Nope, but if I needed to to make ends meet, I'd figure it out. And the way things are going with health insurance, most companies are leaning more towards part timers. And for those of you that think you can t contribute to society unless you are working? Volunteer! I'd love to put some time into forests and national parks.
What he's doing isn't for everyone. Working traditional jobs isn't for everyone. I really admire him and wish I'd had the balls to stand up to my parents when I was younger. All those aptitude tests I took in high school pointed me towards working outdoors with my hands. Mom wanted me to get a business degree. We compromised and I spent 2 years in a community college and have an AS in programming, which I have never used (I'm a better debugger than coder). Now I see you can't be a NPS Ranger if you're older than 37. Follow your dreams! Once you get used to money it's hard to figure out how not to need it. Are all these crazy careers really needed anyway? Seems as though some are made up simply to keep people busy. I was once told the job I was in had so many meetings because if they didn't, people would be out of work. That tells me maybe there were too many people "working" there!
When I was in the death job I read a lot. I suggest Country Bound, Your Money or Your Life and How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World. I read these durning the death job and have spent the last 10 years moving towards that. For a year I also subscribed to the Caretakers Gazette - there's a fascinating world!
So hard to remember all the comments but on women and security - those who say that are assuming that a woman needs a man to provide for her? Nope! All I ever wanted was a partner to have fun with and who won't spend my money on his stuff! I've proven I can provide for myself. If two of us can be frugal and have fun together, all the better. As far as I'm concerned, as long as a man can provide for himself, I don't care what he makes or drives. And if someone judges me by my car, clothes or paycheck, f 'em. I'm happy with who I am and that's what matters.
Some of you are absolutely hostile about this! Admit its not your deal and move on.
My .50
Last edited by WouldLoveTo; 01-01-2014 at 03:45 PM..
Shame on you! I've been a lurker for 3 years and you made me sign up. This is the best thread ever, even better then nep321 in the CT forum.
You are welcome! Glad that you finally got signed up.
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That post you refer to was not about EH, it was about the person who makes $200k/yr at age 24 working for a worldwide banking company.
Ah, my bad. The 24 year old said he was a Vice President of something or other, so I did not think that the other post was about him. Well, that answers that.
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Once I was reading comments online from a local newspaper where a doctor said no one can survive on $14/hr. yet there I was at a job that paid just that. Still have that job, and a few others. I don't work a traditional 40 hr work week. I probably do average 40 hours a week when all is said and done though, but I have some financial goals, and two exh's that believed in buy now, pay later. Trust me, once I'm a little more where I want to be, I'm cutting back as well.
Who's dumb idea was it that a work week should be 40 hours? I'd prefer to be "working" around my house or car.
I live in southern New England and our COL is high
I have a mortgage. My house is listed at 1244 sq ft. Sometimes I'd like something a little bigger, but what is really like is more land (space) and a few outbuildings.
When you bought the house, were you by yourself living off of 20k a year?
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My car is 28 years old. I put a few hundred into it a year. This includes tune ups, oil changes and property taxes. I know people who pay more in just auto property taxes than I do for a years worth of everything. Or one car payment! One year I had to buy both snows and summer tires in a 4 month span. Kind of sucked, but the set of snows had lasted 10 years so I can't complain. The only thing killing me now is the damn liquid and granular road salt. I'm having a hard time keeping up with the rust. A boss sometimes asks me when I'm getting a newer car. I tell her I will when she regularly arrives at events before me. My last car payment was in 1992. The car I'm driving now cost me $350 10 years ago. I put 9-12k miles on it a year.
It's not difficult to pay for a car, even on 20k. My car is also owned. Unfortunately, it needs a new engine due to driving it 14,000 miles in a few months for a job. That kind of thing can happen, as well. And yes I most certainly did indeed keep up on maintenance. I hear ya on the salt/chemical crap they put on the roads. Just use sand for crying out loud.
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I bring home about 1/4, or less, of what my last husband and I made combined. Same house. Yet I now have a savings account and yes, some months are tight as one of my jobs is seasonal, but I make it. When I was with him, we paid out a minimum of $700/mo in credit card bills and lived completely paycheck to paycheck.
I have private health insurance that I pay for, not subsidized. I've had some health issues this year and much has been out of pocket. Some of my issues were caused from long term effects of a miserable job. I was so bored and depressed I'd stop at the store on the way in and buy 1-2 lbs of candy in bulk. I'd start eating it around 9am. To counteract the resulting crash, I'd pop a diet pill and some Red Bull. I did this for 3.5 years. The last few years of my marriage finished me off. Stress is not good for anyone. Being tied in a cubicle all day and having to be there certain hours, 5 days a week, stresses me out.
I have two cats that get premium food and the best medical care. They come before me.
Pets have the same status in my house.
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For food, I know I can live on $100-$125/mo by watching sales and eating a lot of pasta, tuna and bread. This is not the best diet for me so I spend a bit more now.
The thing is, if you skimp now, you will pay later. I think it would be cheaper to spend a little more now, keep your health better, than it would be to suffer from 20 or so years of eating cheap, terrible food. We can't always afford it, I get that...but if you can, you should.
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I don't have kids. Never wanted them, it just wasn't for me. Had a step daughter once and that was enough drama.
I have more clothes than I should. I used to work in a sporting shop and got great deals. I'm paring down a bit. Sometimes I'll pick up a set of jeans at Goodwill but most of the time I get them on eBay. I know exactly what I want and hate shopping and they're cheaper too.
The only time I bought clothes recently was when I first moved up here, (New England), from Florida. Florida's version of "cold winter clothes" won't hack it up here. So I went to Goodwill, as well, and stocked up on sweaters.
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I bike. A lot. My bikes were from the sporting shop days. My shorts wear out so I watch winter sales and pick up 2-3 pairs at a time. I also grab deals on my sports nutrition when I can. Tires, yikes, just as much as car tires but I haven't raced in a few years so I really stretch them out and hope I don't blow out a sidewall in the woods.
I own an iPhone (purchased mostly with saved Christmas money), iPad (bonus, bday gift and some of my own savings) and a laptop which my business bought 5+ years ago. I expect I'll need another in the next year or two, but I had slowly upgraded the RAM, hard drive and OS to stretch it as long as possible. Those are extravagances..... Yet I waited 4 years for the phone and 2 for the ipad. How many of your kids have the latest and greatest?
I don't have kids. Unless you mean my fur kids and like I said, they come before me. They don't have the "latest and greatest". A paper bag, a couple of cardboard boxes, and the plastic ring from the milk jug keeps the cats entertained. The dogs? Just take 'em out for a walk, throw a cheap ball around, they are thrilled.
Latest and greatest...I don't have a cell phone. Well, I do, it's pay as you go...I am not going, so I dont pay, I don't use it, so I say I don't have one. It's in a drawer, not being used. I do not have an iPhone. I don't have an iPad. I have a laptop that I bought in 2009. Knock on wood, it's still going strong. I am still on Vista...the OS it came with. So, try again?
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In 2013 I bought a camera. I had always had DSLR on my short list of wants, but decided for a super zoom. Photography has always been a passion of mine and while I love the old compact I have, the super zoom is fantastic. I just won a spot of honor in an online contest. The compact still goes on rides with me.
I got the camera for a trip I took. A week on an island off the eastern coast. Can't wait to go back. I drove there in my old car, probably about 1000 miles all told. There is so much of the US I want to explore by car or bike.
When I had a certain job down in Miami, I was able to save up a bit and get myself a DSLR. So my camera is....about three years old. But, I was also working probably about 50 hours a week at the time. Having said that, despite some beliefs, I LIKED my job. I enjoyed it. I didn't enjoy all of my co-workers, but the job? LOVED. IT.
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I say this to let you know I'm not denying myself with my frugal lifestyle. I have basic cable though I'll probably drop that as I only really watch network tv. No landline. I don't like "artificial" air so my house is cold in the winter and warm in the summer. (I hate winter but can't stand walking into a place that's above 65 degrees. I feel like I'm going to pass out.) I have led a pretty full life and am exited about the rest of it. In no way do I feel I'm denying myself by not making 50k, and I'm sure many of you would scoff and say that's too low to live on.
You have no idea what I live on. Not a clue, so please do not presume to know what my lifestyle is like. I will tell you, I don't make $50,000 a year. All I have ever said is that, for the average person, you can NOT retire in your 20s with a paid house, paid car, and $15,000 start up bank account, and then go on to only make $10 an hour for a few years until you hit your 30s. No, it doesn't work like that.
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In case you're wondering, I have a CC I'm still paying off from my last marriage. My biz has one too, back from when I'd take biz money to pay household expenses during the marriage. That said, expect for some business printing that gets charged to the card and paid off when my client pays me, I have not used a CC in well over 2 years. I'm hoping they'll both be completely paid off in a couple of years, then I'll keep a couple for emergencies...... But my true goal is to have emergency money in the bank.
I make a bit more than EH does (not even twice as much though) and my expenses are higher. I'd be in heaven if I was putting that much away! And once those CCs are paid off, I'll be socking more away. So I can have fun and be less reliant on the man!
That's great. And thus far, since that divorce, you seem to have not had to deal with any other types of set backs. Some people do. Some people have their shtf moments at least once or twice a year. It happens. That is why I continually say, telling people that they can do all of this and retire at 20k is not realistic. Some people don't have as many setbacks, some do. So let's be real here, and think about how much you would need saved up to be able to get through those setbacks, as well as the other money you are trying to save up. Let's seriously be real here. Again, looks good on paper....but as you have experienced, life does not go how we put it on paper, and anyone who denies that, is not living in reality.
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I'm nearing 50. From the time I was in college, I knew I wasn't cut out for a corporate job. I did want to work, but I was always intrigued by people who had small businesses. I started a couple, but this was prior to Internet and it was tough to keep them going with the traditional job I was expected to do. The job that about killed me was my only corporate stint. Right now I collect 3 paychecks, have my own business and do a lot of odd jobs. Yet I manage to go for nice rides before work as I am really not required to be in at any specific time. I can leave early, take time off. No benefits, but it works for me. I would never go back to the rat race again.
You don't have to work in a cubicle to make it. Where do people get the idea that the only viable job out there is in some office cubicle?
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I wold love to move to a state with a lower cost of living (and less winter!). That's my dream.
Why do you think I moved here? Oh sure, the locals insist that it's not low cost, but compared to where I've lived? It most certainly is!
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What happens if Eddie needs more money? Gee....... Bet he can pick up a quick job. You see, there are tons of jobs out there. Problem is many think they are beneath them. Would I want to work 40 hours a week at minimum wage? Nope, but if I needed to to make ends meet, I'd figure it out. And the way things are going with health insurance, most companies are leaning more towards part timers.
Which is exactly magicjak's point in many posts. If you have to come out of "retirement" to work because you need more money, then you didn't plan your retirement correctly. That has been precisely magicjak's point. And, it's been my point.
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What he's doing isn't for everyone. Working traditional jobs isn't for everyone. I really admire him and wish I'd had the balls to stand up to my parents when I was younger. All those aptitude tests I took in high school pointed me towards working outdoors with my hands. Mom wanted me to get a business degree. We compromised and I spent 2 years in a community college and have an AS in programming, which I have never used (I'm a better debugger than coder). Now I see you can't be a NPS Ranger if you're older than 37. Follow your dreams! Once you get used to money it's hard to figure out how not to need it. Are all these crazy careers really needed anyway? Seems as though some are made up simply to keep people busy. I was once told the job I was in had so many meetings because if they didn't, people would be out of work. That tells me maybe there were too many people "working" there!
What IS he doing, exactly? He won't tell anyone. It's a big mystery. He just expects us to believe everything he is telling us and we are to take it at face value...but he asks, in his OP, "who wants to join me?" What if someone did? He refuses to say how he's making 20k a year without working, so who CAN join him? NO ONE KNOWS what he does.
Used to what money? LOL, honey, you're barking up the wrong tree.
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When I was in the death job I read a lot. I suggest Country Bound, Your Money or Your Life and one other fantastic book whose name escapes me. For a year I also subscribed to the Caretakers Gazette - there's a fascinating world!
Some of you are absolutely hostile about this! Admit its not your deal and move on.
My .50
I'm not "hostile", I deal with reality. I live in reality. Again, the point is, and has been, the entire time, this is not feasible for the average person. You sit here and write this lengthy post making a whole hell of a lot of assumptions about my life. You just assumed, you never asked. That negates pretty much your entire argument from beginning to end. You know nothing about me. You have NO idea.
When I say that you cannot buy a house, buy a car, have a savings, and retire in your 20s on only 20k, I know damn good and well what I'm talking about.
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