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One thing these people never mention is how or why they ended up in a job they found so highly objectionable. Was it by design, or did they graduate college and then find out the "real world" wasn't what they expected, or perhaps they never even considered what the real world would be like when they got there?
One thing these people never mention is how or why they ended up in a job they found so highly objectionable. Was it by design, or did they graduate college and then find out the "real world" wasn't what they expected, or perhaps they never even considered what the real world would be like when they got there?
I think it's a combination of all of the above. I think a lot of financial independence types just don't like the rat race in any shape or form. They don't care about the new cars, vacations, big houses, eating out, etc. that are supposed to be the rewards for having an above average paying job. So giving that stuff up, and saving/investing the difference so they can leave the rat race a few decades earlier doesn't seem like a big sacrifice to them. They want both free time and control over their time, which is something you don't have when working a career type job.
As I progress higher in my career, it’s easier to buy time back. In other words, paying for things like house cleaning and lawn mowing.
Their definition of "buying time back" is completely different from yours.
When they see 100K in their 401k, they see 3, 4, 5 years of living expenses put away so they don't have to do the stressful job. They know when they hit somewhere between 15X and 25X their expenses they can either work at something they enjoy (at the 15X expenses level, they're still going to have to work, but it will probably be more fun/lower paying work) or quit entirely (25X expense level).
They don't see hiring someone to do the housework so they can go to a job they don't like as buying their time back. I would personally see that as a higher paid slave hiring a lower paid slave. Kind of a pecking order of slavery. Neither one really has much free time or control over their time. Most likely, neither one is really doing work that they enjoy doing.
Their definition of "buying time back" is completely different from yours.
When they see 100K in their 401k, they see 3, 4, 5 years of living expenses put away so they don't have to do the stressful job. They know when they hit somewhere between 15X and 25X their expenses they can either work at something they enjoy (at the 15X expenses level, they're still going to have to work, but it will probably be more fun/lower paying work) or quit entirely (25X expense level).
They don't see hiring someone to do the housework so they can go to a job they don't like as buying their time back. I would personally see that as a higher paid slave hiring a lower paid slave. Kind of a pecking order of slavery. Neither one really has much free time or control over their time. Most likely, neither one is really doing work that they enjoy doing.
I like my career. Do I like it as much as my free time? No. But my free time is enhanced by my career because of what I’m able to experience because of it.
Whose to say I don’t also have 100k in my 401k too?
Slavery? Really...? I guess we’ll agree to disagree.
And the reality is that I’m banking more in gross numbers into retirement by saving 13 percent of a high income and getting a 13 percent dollar for dollar match than the person making way less but working super hard to save and give up fun stuff in their 20s and 30s to live some grand future life where their time is freed up partially with financial independence. They probably still need to do a lot of “do it yourself” and penny pinching to make the money last though. In this example, the prior poster pointed to someone making 60k. They would have to take a hard bite on their lifestyle to save 30k a year. I hardly notice it’s ever been gone because I’ve always just saved it up front. It’s basically the marginal utility of money in action.
Gross numbers don't mean much if you have to go to a job you don't like. It's the percentage of income saved/invested that matters much more.
Jason Fieber did it. Never earned more than 55k at his job. Worked at it for 6 or 7 years. Worked feverishly at a job he heated as well as did his blog on the side and sold it. Moved to Thailand where he can have a nice 1BR apartment in the center of town with a pool (no need for a car), spends money as he wants (within reason), and has a nice Thai girlfriend. He walked away from the stressful job 3 years ago at 33. If he'd figured it out in his early 20s, he could've gotten to the same spot 3-5 years earlier. He worked his butt off for about 6 or 7 years, endured ridicule for taking the bus to his stressful job at a car dealership. Now he can write and do personal training part time, which pays for his living expenses. He occasionally adds to his dividend stock portfolio. His portfolio could pay most of his living expenses, so it's a nice safety net. But he just adds a few hundred a month to it and the dividends grow on their own over time.
It really boils down to whether you think working the job for 30-40 years that you feel meh about and/or dislike is worth it in return for the new car, the house in the suburbs, the 3-4 vacations a year or not. While I'm not as extreme as some in the financial independence crowd, I definitely lean in their direction.
Yeah I just flat out never had any interest in even the tiniest way of working a job I didn’t enjoy at any point in my life. My company does feel like “work I don’t enjoy” much of the time, however, but at least it’s my company and more than that when this year came around I just decided I wouldn’t be involved anymore in the day to day nonsense so I could focus on pursuits that are meaningful to me.
To me you could show me any material possessions or whatever else and none of that means anything compared to being truly free, which means every day I wake up is mine to do with as I please. And I can do that every day the rest of my days pursuing only what I choose to do. That’s what I most value!
That's at least partly, if not mostly, because the average corporate worker bee doesn't want it bad enough. You essentially have to earn an upper middle class income but live a lower middle class lifestyle for a decade and save/invest the difference. Engineers seem to be most likely to be wiling to live this way. They don't care about social status and get a kick out of designing an efficient lifestyle....so living close to work in a small apartment (or buying a house and renting out the bedrooms) and riding your bike to work (or driving a used economy car) is less likely to be seen as deprivation/sacrifice to such people. They want independence from the corporate world more than they want the 'trappings' of the upper middle class lifestyle.
You should write a blog. You have an amazing ability to sum things up.
Yeah I just flat out never had any interest in even the tiniest way of working a job I didn’t enjoy at any point in my life. My company does feel like “work I don’t enjoy” much of the time, however, but at least it’s my company and more than that when this year came around I just decided I wouldn’t be involved anymore in the day to day nonsense so I could focus on pursuits that are meaningful to me.
To me you could show me any material possessions or whatever else and none of that means anything compared to being truly free, which means every day I wake up is mine to do with as I please. And I can do that every day the rest of my days pursuing only what I choose to do. That’s what I most value!
That's great if you can do what you really love (at least most of the time) and earn a good income at it. A lot of us aren't wired that way, unfortunately. But I think it's great for people who can pull it off. The only caveat is you may not always be able to work for active income, so saving a decent chunk of your active income from a job you love is still essential.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 09-11-2018 at 11:15 PM..
Your Money or Your Life.... a book and a philosophy!
Yes, definitely. I didn't agree with the books politics that much (although they definitely weren't obnoxious about it), but the underlying philosophy was/is excellent.
It's really just the same stuff being repackaged over and over again (Your Money or Your Life, Suze Orman, Dave Ramsey, Mr. Money Mustache, etc.). Problem is, no matter how you package it, people totally resist the idea of spending a lot less than they earn, even when they make a lot.
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