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My family (wife, 2 yr old and we're planning on 1-2 more) and I will be relocating to Philly in the next 6 months or so. I'm originally from the Lansdale area but haven't really lived in the area since high school, which unfortunately is 15-20 years ago (unfortunate for me, because it means I'm getting older...)
I'll be working in Center City, and we are concentrating our search on the Main Line area because it's close to and/or between our family and friends (they basically stretch from Blue Bell to Media to CC) and the commute doesn't seem horrible, or at least there's the train option to CC. The choice of the Main Line is also nice based on my limited amount of time spent there (it seems like a pretty nice area) but I'm not 100% sure: as a 17 yr old high school student, my perspective was different than it is now and I just didn't have much reason to head to the Main Line and spend much time there. Most of my time spent there as an adult has been more along the lines of Christmas/Thanksgiving at a relative's house, so other than driving around, I don't know much about what there is to do there. I do know Center City relatively well, but we're just not in the place in our lives to live in the city right now.
We like little downtown areas where we can park the car and walk to a couple of restaurants, stores, coffee places, bars, etc and I just can't tell if there are any towns on the Main Line that offer that type of downtown area. It seems like the Main Street of most of the Main Line towns is Lancaster Avenue, and I can't tell from when I've driven down it if there's much to do. However, we're also not completely averse to a more rural feeling lifestyle if we found the right place with a bit of land (although I need to keep commuting time in mind, and it's nice to have some restaurants or a downtown nearby). Schools are a priority as we have at least one child that will be entering schools over the next few years, and although we can afford private schools, we'd prefer a public school if it's a good one. This isn't meant in a braggish sense, but we don't really have a housing budget limitation, we'd probably spend up to $3-4m, but I will gladly pay far less than that: I don't need to live in a 10,000 sf house or spend $4m to show off or make me feel like my phallus is large. We're also not huge fans of snobby people who think their poo smells like roses, because, let's admit it, all of it smells like cr*p. That said, I do think it would be cool to restore an old estate some day, but today, with a young family, may not be the day to do that.
I've been looking around online at houses in the Narberth/Wynnewood area, and also out in Berwyn/Devon and they seem like nice areas. The closer in 'burbs seem nice, there's a downtown in Narberth, and we'd be close to the city. What's it like living in that area?
Berwyn/Devon seem to offer some nice older houses (we like older homes-McMansions just aren't our thing) with the benefit of land. What is life like in Berwyn/Devon? Is there anything to do there? It's close to Wayne, but is there anything to do in Wayne?
How's life in the middle-Bryn Mawr, Nova, Wayne?
Really, how's the commute to the city on the Schuylkill, Rt. 30 or 3? Is the train a pretty efficient way to get in?
The Main Line has retained much of its "old money" allure although there have been changes that might appeal to you.
Lancaster Ave/Route 30 is still the common thread where the main retail and restaurant options will be found. On and near that road, Wayne's downtown has developed while Bryn Mawr and Ardmore have maintained their town centers as well. Narberth is an exception to the Lancaster Ave. connection.
While you'll be living in the most contiguously affluent communities in the area, it probably won't be necessary to spend even half of your budget, depending on what you are truly looking for.
Others here more knowledgeable will go into detail about the schools. Suffice it to say that the sentiment is while they are highly-ranked, there is also a lot of pressure to perform at the high school level.
The Paoli/Thorndale Line, formerly known as the R5, is a reliable way to get into the city. Depending on where you choose to live as well as your work schedule, you may be able to take a limited stop route into Center City.
If for some reason you decide that the Main Line is a "rose-sniffing" contest,
consider the Media/Swarthmore/Wallingford area. It will also have many of the features you are seeking - including an active downtown Media - for a better value and generally shorter commute.
Yes, the train is an efficient way to get in. Commuting on the Schuykill and Route 30 is rough, both are congested. It's longer than whatever estimate you will find when looking it up on Google Maps, sometimes double. Its doable, as are most things, but its not ideal especially during rush hour. If you have the option to take the train, that's definitely the way to go.
The little downtown areas on the Main Line are in Narberth, Wayne, Bryn Mawr, and Ardmore for the most part. Since you aren't concerned with being within walking distance of the downtowns, just being able to drive there in a short amount of time, I'd suggest looking in Narberth (Penn Valley) and Wynnewood as you have been, but also looking in Bryn Mawr, Haverford, Rosemont, Villanova and Wayne. Depending on what you are looking for, you can likely find what you want for less than $2.5 million.
Devon and Berwyn are very nice, but since you seem to be worried about a bit more of a commute, you might want to consider that when looking there. They are closer to King of Prussia than they are to CC.
School districts in these areas are excellent. There are also excellent nearby private schools if that ends up being the route you want to take (various reasons to do so for some). Snobby is prevalent, unavoidable in your price range in this area. But its manageable, there are nice people in the area not hung up on money and status as well.
We moved to a sliver of Valley Forge in the Tredyffrin-Easttown SD and love it here. Right up your alley. Best SD this side of the state. Friendly people, very down to earth relative to the area. Half the mountain we live on is Schuylkill County/Phoenixville so a good mix of people and homes; great neighborhood organization but not stuffy or rules based at all. We are about 10 minutes from 202/252/422/Lancaster Ave and the Paoli train station. Another 5 minutes for the turpike.
Now if you have to have a walkable downtown you can walk to, that would be Wayne but I would probably choose West Chester or Media (Media and Swarthmore have better schools than WC) because of the snob factor.
Or you can move to Wayne/Malvern/Valley Forge and drive to Phoenixville which is being revitalized very nicely. Also huge estate homes around here if that's your thing but I'm totally in agreement on McMansions and snobs.
I'd avoid Berwyn and Devon on down due to the snob factor. Narberth, Wynnewood, Bala Cynwyd, Bryn Mawr, Ardmore would probably be ok.
I have lived in Lansdale and most recently, Berwyn, before I bought a house in a more affordable area. I LOVED the Berwyn area and didn't find the people snobby at all. I regularly took my dogs to the local park and found the folks there extremely friendly. I lived on the north side of Rt. 30 and could walk to the Berwyn train station. The homes around there were older, mostly beautifully maintained or restored large twins or singles, with lots of charm and character. In the Conestoga Road and Contention Lane areas, there are some beautiful developments of large Colonials in the hills with big lots and gorgeous landscaping. These are not McMansions, they are older, established developments, which I would prefer to a McMansion (not that I can afford either, LOL). Of course, any of the Main Line towns have similarly beautiful areas -- just drive the back roads off Rt. 30 and you see them. The thing I like about Berwyn, though, is its convenience to Rt. 202 and the entrance to the Turnpike and Expressway. It has a small downtown area by the train station with a few restaurants and coffee shops. Wish I could have afforded a home there, as it was really a wonderful, quiet, convenient, upscale yet friendly place to live. And is in the T-E school district...which is one of the reasons I couldn't afford a home there.
Narberth proper is different from the other towns that tend to be classic upscale suburbia. On the main line it is in a class by itself. At one time Narberth was considered "the wrong side of the tracks" or "where the help lived" and it has a lot of big victorian houses on small lots that have been converted to apartments and also many small condo buildings. Some of the old houses are also single family. Narberth has a grid plan with sidewalks as opposed to the other towns that tend to have winding roads without sidewalks but big lawns with newer houses. (from the '30's to the '60's) while in Narberth many of the houses are older. Narberth has become very fashionable and trendy recently ( I'm not sure with whom) but it still isn't "top drawer"
Newtown Square doesn't have the little downtown area that you'd like, nor is it on the Main Line Proper. Rt. 3 is the main artery and it's filled with the usual suburban strip mall kind of stuff. That said, there are some beautiful homes in the Newtown Square area, particularly the back roads of Willistown Township, which is Chester County but has a Newtown Square zip code. Swarthmore I don't know much about, but it's certainly a gorgeous area with many older homes of character. If I had your budget, which really allows you to go anywhere on the Main Line, I'd go for the best school district. The only thing I'm not sure of is your desire for "land"....property is extremely expensive on the Main Line, and check the tax situation as well. Some areas of Delaware County have extremely high property taxes.
Keep in mind that the real estate crash hit philly late but hard. Very little is selling now and prices are dropping every day. You can pick up some real bargains from people who are desperate to sell and can't. Don't be afraid to offer way below asking and if your target doesn't respond his neighbor down the road probably will.
I was in Swathmore once and my impression was a lot of smaller houses on smaller lots built in the '30's and '40's. Both places have an excellent reputation.
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The little downtown areas on the Main Line are in Narberth, Wayne, Bryn Mawr, and Ardmore for the most part. Since you aren't concerned with being within walking distance of the downtowns, just being able to drive there in a short amount of time, I'd suggest looking in Narberth (Penn Valley) and Wynnewood as you have been, but also looking in Bryn Mawr, Haverford, Rosemont, Villanova and Wayne. Depending on what you are looking for, you can likely find what you want for less than $2.5 million
Agree with this. Wayne's downtown is nicer, in the more lively, more vibrant, and always seems to have the critical mass of people coming and going categories, than the others. It's also somewhat more upscale. Ardmore's downtown is looking a little shabby these days, with multiple closed storefronts. It may get better in the future, they are planning a huge development around the train station. But the downside is the liveliness and user/pedestrian friendliness of it will get worse, for the 18+ month construction period, until it gets better. Right now, the connector street under the train station, between Lancaster Ave and Montgomery is closed (for "signage"), it will re-open, then close again for what I hear is 10+ months.
I'd also add Bala Cynwyd to the above list. It has a smallish downtown on Montgomery Ave, with a few restaurants (good Indian), pharmacies, delis, a Starbucks, and some retail storefronts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryson662001
Narberth proper is different from the other towns that tend to be classic upscale suburbia. On the main line it is in a class by itself. At one time Narberth was considered "the wrong side of the tracks" or "where the help lived" and it has a lot of big victorian houses on small lots that have been converted to apartments and also many small condo buildings. Some of the old houses are also single family. Narberth has a grid plan with sidewalks as opposed to the other towns that tend to have winding roads without sidewalks but big lawns with newer houses. (from the '30's to the '60's) while in Narberth many of the houses are older. Narberth has become very fashionable and trendy recently ( I'm not sure with whom) but it still isn't "top drawer"
It doesn't get mentioned much here in these types of questions, but Narberth actually has two downtowns. well, one downtown proper, and one retail corridor on Montgomery Ave, with a few restaurants a bar, a grocery store, and some retail.
I don't agree with the no sidewalks in areas other than Narberth idea. It is true many of the side streets (the non-arterial streets, such as Montgomery and Lancaster Aves, Haverford Rd, etc) do not have sidewalks, many do. But not all. It's an inconsistent, checkerboard mix, you can be walking for a mile on a sidewalk, and then there is none, and then 300 yards ahead it re-appears. In general, in the homes in the bigger lots on the back, residential winding streets do not have sidewalks. But these locations are too far from the downtown/retail centers for your criteria, anyway.
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