Is the Mayfair Area Nice? (Oxford, Mars: middle-class, section 8, sale)

[malone1]

I am looking to invest in a rental property on the 6300 block of Marsden Street in the Mayfair section. What do you think of the area? It is near Torresdale Ave and Magnolia Cemetery.

[phlydude]

That is not Mayfair - I'm not even sure it is Tacony...it most likely is Wissinoming.

I have seen that neighborhood turn in the last 10-15 years. I drove through it recently after not seeing it for a few years and I couldn't believe how the area had changed from family neighborhood with a little wannabe thugs to just looking a bit more run-down and with a major demographic swing.

Seems to have some decent sized row homes in the area but they are all over the place in the range. It is close to the busy Robbins Ave. (heading to the Tacony bridge and NJ) so it won't be quiet.

But it is close to the 56 route bus (and perhaps trolley again in the future) with links to Cottman Ave (north terminus), Bridge St (to get to Frankford Trans. Center), the Market-Frankford El and the Broad St. Subway before the line terminates at 22nd and Hunting Park Ave.

[otters21]

Years and years ago , like in the 70s I knew a pair of brothers and their sister whom all were my friends back then. They lived on that block with their parents and it was one of the most beautiful and stable blocks in the city. Sad to say ,30 years later many blocks in that area have changed dramatically and not for the best. However there are some blocks that are still decent. You have to go and observe and do your homework to find out what blocks are still good and what blocks have seen decline. The amount of sale signs on the block may give a clue as well if the porches are well kept or full of junky clutter. I am not sure how the block that you are interested in has held up in the midst of these neighborhood changes so my suugestion is that you do your homework. I wish the best for you.

[solibs]

I don't know what your reasons for investing are but I'm assuming it's to make money. Personally, I wouldn't invest in NE Philly, the far Northeast maybe but not lower.

Until they start digging for the Roosevelt Blvd subway (which could be never) the lower northeast will continue to decline. You have working to middle-class neighborhoods where the population is aging rapidly. Older folks might keep their houses in a good state of repair but they don't keep them updated. Throw in the traffic and lack of access to employment centers and the blight of North Philly not far away and it's not the kind of place that middle-class people look to buy in.

[otters21]

Originally Posted by solibs

I don't know what your reasons for investing are but I'm assuming it's to make money. Personally, I wouldn't invest in NE Philly, the far Northeast maybe but not lower.

Until they start digging for the Roosevelt Blvd subway (which could be never) the lower northeast will continue to decline. You have working to middle-class neighborhoods where the population is aging rapidly. Older folks might keep their houses in a good state of repair but they don't keep them updated. Throw in the traffic and lack of access to employment centers and the blight of North Philly not far away and it's not the kind of place that middle-class people look to buy in.

I agree with on most of your post. However at this point unless things improve and the proposed subway gets built,I would not invest even in the far NE. The decline just keeps on creeping further and further northward and I won't be surprised if it spills over into the lower Bucks County burbs. One of the strikes against the Northeast -both near and far that most of the housing is quite bland ( 50s and 60s brick airlite style rowhomes and many blocks are almost treeless). There are some beautiful tree lined blocks with attractive stone front airlite rowhomes but they are mostly located in Mayfair which is somewhat still stable. Also there are many blocks with older rowhomes with porches built in 1920s that are more attractive but IMHO they do not offset the blandness of the neighborhoods in Northeast Philly . Frankford, East Frankford , lower Wissinoming, Northwood and Tacony do have interesting housing in pockets but they are in small areas compared to the entire NE part of town . Unfortunately the first two neighborhoods I just mentioned are toilets that went to a certain hot place down below in a handbasket and the latter three have shown significant decline and keep getting worse. It seems like Mayfair is the only neighborhood in the lower Northeast that seems to keep on holding it's own. As far as the far Northeast( and even lower Bucks Co.) is concerned it is only a matter of time before that too goes to that certain hot place below. Reason being is that it is very car centric and sprawling and the housing is 50s and 60s suburban bland. It is not attractive for gentrification. They were all once nice middle class areas but once the decline sets in there is no stopping. Sorry to say that but unfortunately people may not be interested in restoring the Northeast because of the bland housing stock and it is not all that close to Center City and also the fact is that in many areas , it is nescessary to drive because mass transit is not the best in a great number of NE Philly neighbrhoods.

[solibs]

good points otters. I would argue that lower Bucks doesn't need to wait for the blight to creep in from Northeast Philly - it already has its own.

[slickvic277]

Good points by all,I would avoid the following areas,summerdale,oxford circle,frankford,wissinoming,tacony and holmesburg.Although each one of these neighborhoods has their little pockets of nice streets and some surprisingly large houses in certain areas they are for the most part beyond the point of return as far as being desirable middle class neighborhoods.
The last stronghold for northeast middle class "affordable" neighborhoods goes,you have mayfair,rahwnhurst and I guess foxchase.
But even in these areas it can be drastically different from block to block.
Even though the price of row homes is much higher now then they were 10 years ago,so is the amount of section 8 tenants in these neighborhoods.In my experience once the section 8 filth moves in to your neighborhood it will only take about 5 years for it to be totally destroyed.
I have seen it over and over again.I'm in mayfair now,I live a few blocks from pennypack,I consider this area pretty strong right now but I can already see my "white flight" to the suburbs in the not so distant future.
It still amazes me how every neighborhood in the northeast is being called mayfair when it's not even close.

[solibs]

I think the areas of east of Frankford will probably stabilize in the next 5 years. There's a lot of fresh money coming into "Port Fishington" and it seems to be following the El and the 15 trolley a little further out each year.

Once the big infrastructure investments start along Delaware Ave. (trolley, bike trail, streetscaping) i think it's gonna push that whole dynamic into Bridesburg.

Not that Bridesburg and Tacony will ever be the new Northern Liberties but I think the decline will level off and maybe turn around a bit - whereas I see nothing but trouble for places like Oxford Circle.

[slickvic277]

The "gentrification" of these areas are a little over rated in my opinion,Areas like northern liberties,port richmond and fish town are all just a stone throw away from drug and crime infested areas,I lived in kensington when I was a kid when I here these places being listed as desirable places to live it makes me laugh.

[solibs]

Originally Posted by slickvic277

The "gentrification" of these areas are a little over rated in my opinion,Areas like northern liberties,port richmond and fish town are all just a stone throw away from drug and crime infested areas,I lived in kensington when I was a kid when I here these places being listed as desirable places to live it makes me laugh.

Northern Liberties is between Old City and Fishtown. Not really feeling the "stones throw" vibe there.

NoLibs is better now than it ever was in the last 100 years. I'd say the same for Fishtown. If you don't live here and all you do is drive through a few times a year you really don't know how much private money has and is going in to these neighborhoods. You don't get first hand accounts from people who actually live there - today.

You also don't get developers half-way through a 15 year project still pumping out phases of a $500 million development (in a down economy) in a neighborhood that's "over-rated."