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Well with the convention center expansion about done at this point I have been thinking a bit about Market East. Built on a main corrider why is it where it is and can it ever get better.
There is discussion about the light rail line, a redevelopment to the Galery (including a Target), casino discusssion etc.
What is wrong with Market Eat, will/can it get better? What can or is the works to be done?
Also, just something simple but why does the lowes not have a bar/restaurant on their top floor, if you have ever been up it is a great space and amazing views of the city, though not as high as R2L the space is far better (high ceilings) and the views are equally good, but most important the place and space has character. Just go see for yourself, elevator to the top floor where there is meeting rooms.
Market East is an interesting little place. It seems to suffer from Modernism in a way that most of Philadelphia doesn't. It has that pretty awful mall (which I do have to frequent from time to time, living in Center City but not having a ton of money), some one story/non-mixed use retail that really contradicts the urban fabric, and Independence Mall completely cuts it off from Old City, despite the fact that its close enough to be an obvious place that residents and visitors in Old City would want to go if it was better.
Interestingly enough, I read a book about Edmund Bacon, who sort of planned this whole thing out. I think it was written in the 90's - and even then Edmund Bacon seemed pretty proud of Market East, like it was some kind of improvement.
What was this area like before that Mr. Bacon was "proud" of it? Or is he just that out of touch?
I've seen a lot of things about future plans for Market East, many of which have a lot of potential, and pretty much all at least seem like an improvement.
Bacon did good and bad for the city overall, but we are still trying to fix some of the aspects of his vision. The one thing that he was able to do was mostly get things dones, something that can never be understimated (especially in Philly) even if much was sterile and concrete...
Bacon did good and bad for the city overall, but we are still trying to fix some of the aspects of his vision. The one thing that he was able to do was mostly get things dones, something that can never be understimated (especially in Philly) even if much was sterile and concrete...
Yeah - I don't have a completely negative impression of him. Lots of cities went through some pretty bad changes, and things could have been a lot worse. In the book I read, he talks about how he wanted to knock down City Hall - and he calls it his worst idea ever, which is more than you'd get from a lot of people from his time period. Plus, it seems that unlike some other cities, people are pretty well aware of what's good and what's not good here, and there are attempts to fix the bad. Like the redoing of Dillworth Plaza coming up, and the talk of Market East.
I was mainly wondering what Market East was before his time period that he was still so proud of it relatively recently. Although it's not as bad as it could be, I just have a hard time picturing it as better now than in its past incarnations - that's all. I actually see now that the last link you posted gets into that, so I guess that answers my question.
Market East is certainly not one of Center City's best areas, but I strongly believe better days are ahead for it. It's just in too prime of an area to not undergo some sort of redevelopment (of course, with proper economic conditions). The giant surface parking lot at 8th & Market, I believe, is a huge impediment to creating vibrancy on that stretch, and a properly-scaled mixed-use development on that lot would work wonders for that area. Putting the old Strawbridge & Clothier building to a much better retail/office use would also really infuse the area with some more life.
Of course, there are ongoing issues of Market East having too much down-market retail and being a hub for panhandling, but this corridor really presents such a great opportunity to link the tourist draws of Independence Mall with the bustling activity of Broad Street. The recently released plans/dialogue are definitely a step in the right direction. The good thing is, the City really isn't short on ideas on how to fix places like Market East -- it's just a matter of putting it into an effective/appropriate plan and finding the right investors.
Market East suffers from a combination of bad design, and bad luck. Ed Bacon's plan for Market East/The Gallery was actually a good one. To create a multi-level transit hub building on the existing infrastructure, and use that as an anchor for new retail, connecting the existing large department stores on Market Street to rejuvenate a deteriorating commercial district - good idea! Unfortunately, the implementation of that plan was abysmal. Bacon's original design drawings for The Gallery/Market East are a far cry from what was eventually built.
Bacon's design doesn't show block-long blank facades presented to Market street with only a handful of entrances/exits. Rather, his design presents an urban facade to Market St, with retail storefronts at street level, and then a lower concourse at the level of the subways and the regional rail trains. It actually made sense. But the developers who ended up building the Gallery insisted on building it like a suburban shopping mall - almost entirely inwardly oriented, completely neglecting the street.
Nevertheless, the Gallery was actually a relative success in the beginning, and did much to revitalize downtown shopping in Philly. I think maybe that's why Bacon defends it. But it did so at the expense of Market Street, by sucking all of the vitality off of the street and pulling it underground, below street level. Ultimately terrible urban design - even though the initial concept was a good one.
And then the bad luck part set in, with the slow death of American Department stores, and the rise of suburban shopping.
A few Decades ago, Market Street was Home to Wanamakers, Gimbels, and Strawbridge & Clothier. Unfortunately, since then we've seen the slow death of nearly all local american department stores. Today, nearly every department store in the country is owned by the May/Federated Corporation (Macy's), including Strawbridges, Lord & Taylor, etc.
Not having major locally based stores to anchor the Gallery is a big problem. In focusing on more profit in suburban stores, Macy's dramatically downsized and phased out what once was Wanamakers and Strawbridges. Wanamakers used to be that WHOLE building that Lord & Taylor currently occupies, not just two floors - it was huge! The toy department on the top floor had high ceilings with a train that kids could ride on that went around the ceiling. Strawbridges was a very large store as well - the last to go under. Gimbels was the third large department store on Market East. They were the ones who sponsored the Thanksgiving Day Parade on Market Street (not the Parkway!).
The Gimbels building on 9th & Market was an unfortunate casualty of the Gallery plan - demolished when Gimbels moved to the other side of the street into the Gallery to help anchor the mall.
The former Gimbel's site never really became anything after it was demolished, and has mostly been a surface parking lot ever since.
Current popular lore is that this parking lot is the result of Disney duping the city, I guess because "Disney Hole" has a fun ring to it. But the truth is that that site was a surface lot for more 15+ years before Disney ever came along, and he whole Disneyquest debacle was a result of the city desperately trying to find ANYONE to build something on that site.
If anything, the current parking lot post-(non)disneyquest is actually a huge improvement over the disgusting sinkhole of a parking lot that was there before it. The old parking lot was just the result of someone covering the rubble of the demolished Gimbels site with asphalt, without adding the proper drains or foundation. And so it had sinkholes, and the old basement spaces underneath became a haven for rats & roaches which at night would come out and crawl around on the lot and on Market St at. And it stank! Disgusting! At least since the Disney non-event, the PPA built a proper parking lot that doesn't stink, flood, or spew vermin every night. Don't get me wrong, having a surface lot at 9th & Market is a huge embarrassment for the city - but it was MORE embarrassing before.
So I don't know if there's any easy fix for the changes that have happened to retail over the last 30 years. And unfortunately, the physical design of the Gallery is not easily adaptable to new functions or configurations, with it's primary access underground.
What I hope can happen, to replace the high level retail that's been unfortunately consigned to history, is for Market Street to once again become home to some true downtown movie theaters.
There used to be so many movie palaces in Center City, as late as the 80's & 90's, and now there are ZERO (not counting the former Ritz's, or the Roxy). I think it's something that could work on Market street. And Center City sorely needs some first-run movie theaters. Doing that in combination with the (somewhat controversial) billboard proposal that was floated a few months ago would be a good direction to take, in my opinion.
There are already machinations at work, moving to change Market East.
From the Philadelphia Business Journal:
.Two of the largest landlords along East Market Street are planning to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to breath new life into a worn-down section of Center City stretching from 12th Street to the cusp of the Historic District.
Pennsylvania Real Estate Investment Trust anticipates spending more than $100 million in a phased project transforming the Gallery into a modern, upscale urban mall with more eateries and retailers that appeal to consumers who are fashion-conscious and keep up with style trends. The building would be turned inside out with storefronts overlooking Market Street. PREIT would like to begin next year.
SSH Real Estate, Young Capital and JOSS Realty Partners, the partnership that owns 1100 E. Market St., would raze the dated, squatty building occupying the site and construct a $75 million, four-story retail building that may, depending on market forces, incorporate an estimated $300 million convention-style hotel that would stand 27 stories with 700 to 800 rooms. It would be the first of the four Girard Square buildings to get redeveloped.
While not as far along as PREIT and the partnership owning Girard Square, Goldenberg Group Inc. is working to piece together a mixed-use project on a surface parking lot at 8th and Market streets. In 2004, during the heady days of the real estate boom, it unveiled a $200 million plan for the site.
“It would be multiple levels and on a grand scale,” said Robert Freedman, senior partner and general counsel at the company, about what it continues to envision. “We look at the property as the centerpiece of Market Street East. We think because of both the size of the property — two acres — as well as the location that it really deserves something special.”
Such development activity is considered long overdue for Market East, which is, in some parts, a tired dead zone between City Hall and the historic area, and a drag on that part of the city in spite of having an enormous amount of daily foot traffic from commuters, tourists, conventioneers and downtown residents.
Both PREIT and the Girard partnership say that in order for the projects to move forward they need a new sign district formed along that part of Market Street that would allow high-tech animated billboards on their buildings. Revenue generated from the billboard advertising would help cover a portion of their development costs.
It could have other benefits, according to Freedman of Goldenberg.
“Certainly better, livelier and brighter signage can be helpful to attract new stores and restaurants to the area and make these blocks a more inviting shopping and entertainment destination,” he said. “We are dealing with several national tenants interested in this location, and more flexible signage options and a more dramatic streetscape would be considered a plus for them to locate here.”
A bill to establish the district between 7th and 13th streets was introduced by City Councilmen James Kenney and Frank DiCicco. It would only apply to buildings that are substantially redeveloped or new construction and the size of the billboards would be restricted. It is being reviewed by city planners. A hearing scheduled before the planning commission last month was postponed for further review and a new hearing set for next month.
The measure is expected to be controversial. Some observers believe this type of sign district would make Market East look gaudy and glitzy like Times Square and diminish the historical nature of buildings, potentially harming the Independence Mall area. Residential neighbors worry the bright signs will be an obnoxious intrusion to their homes.
“There’s so much misinterpretation out there,” said Paul Levy, CEO of Center City District. “It’s completely different from Times Square though it is using the technology. Times Square isn’t even close to what we are thinking about. Toronto and Boston have sign districts and this is even more restrictive.”
These sign districts have a way of enlivening an area and, though they capture foot traffic, can even create foot traffic by being interactive by streaming a live feed of a concert at the Kimmel Center or baseball or football games, Levy said, noting people visit Comcast Center just to view the animated images. The revenues the billboards will generate is a way to fill a funding hole local and state governments can’t tap to support development activity.
“If you go back 50 years there were 12 department stores on Market East,” Levy said. “The former Gimbel’s has sat vacant for 30 years.” The Gimbel’s was at 8th and Market where Goldenberg’s surface lot now sits.
The hospitality-and-tourism industry has long pressed for changes along Market East, urging retailers and retail landlords on Market East to make existing stores more “street friendly.”
For instance, they would create storefronts along portions of the Gallery where there are currently blank walls at street level. They would also like to see more convention-style hotels to meet demand for the increased size of the convention center. Center City needs an additional 800 hotel rooms.
“The Market East area is an essential connector between the Convention Center District and the Historic District,” said Jack Ferguson, incoming president of the Philadelphia Convention & Visitors Bureau. “With the highest foot traffic of any part of the city, Market East has great potential for development and prosperity and there are many partners working together to ensure that this happens in a timely and strategic fashion because the evolution of a first-class destination retail and entertainment district around the convention center benefits everyone — both visitors and residents.”
David Eisner, president and CEO of the National Constitution Center, said Independence Mall attractions would benefit from a stronger Market East corridor.
“The next big change is Market Street, from the Pennsylvania Convention Center,” said Eisner. “Instead of just an artery, you’d have something nice. The buildings along there have nice ‘bones.’”
Without the sign district, however, kicking off new construction or massive redevelopment projects will be difficult to finance, the developers said.
“It’s a piece of the solution,” said Joe Coradino, president of PREIT. “It’s certainly not the only solution because there are a lot of other things that come into play. I’ve been doing this for 30 years. This is by far the most complicated transaction I’ve been involved with.”
PREIT bought the Gallery in mid-2003 and late 2004 from Rouse Co., a Maryland retail real estate company. At a dinner celebrating the closing of the transaction, a Rouse executive told Coradino that Rouse Co. had been unable to line up financing for the Gallery because its ownership structure is so complicated lenders steered clear of it, Coradino recalled. The Redevelopment Authority owns the ground, PREIT owns a long-term lease on it and SEPTA and other stakeholders control other parts of the property.
“That was one piece to overcome,” Coradino said, noting that PREIT is trying to simplify some of the ownership arrangement to make it more attractive to lenders. “The second piece is no money has been invested into the Gallery in its history.”
The 1.1 million-square-foot urban mall opened in 1977.
PREIT had been investigating ways to help finance redevelopment of the property. In 2008, Foxwoods Casino considered locating there but that got scrapped. The company then began exploring sign districts for the last year or so, looking at similar projects in Chicago, Minneapolis, Los Angeles, Toronto and elsewhere to see what they looked like, whether they would work along Market East and whether they could be a revenue source.
“Tenants are not going to pay the rent to justify this massive investment,” Coradino said, noting current retailers don’t capture the 60,000 commuters and others who pass through the building every day.
PREIT is deep into its plans for the Gallery. It has an architectural design and it’s going over how the stores and restaurants would be laid out in the redeveloped space. It already has interest from prospective retailers.
“It’s crystallizing in our mind and getting close with the city but we still have some work to do,” he said.
Across the street, owners of 1100 E. Market envision a four-story, 280,000-square-foot glass building with two levels of underground parking that would replace the existing structure. A lease for a large retail anchor, which is rumored to be Target though couldn’t be confirmed, is under negotiation and would help kick off the building. If everything falls into place, including relocating existing tenants, the new space could open in 2014.
“This will be a prime shopping destination for Philadelphia,” said Larry Botel, managing partner at JOSS Realty of New York.
A sign overlay would be a needed boost to the project, Botel said, since the current lending environment is still tight for new construction and retail rents don’t support it either.
“It would be a challenge without the sign district,” he said. “We don’t want it to be loud and flashy, but it needs to be what it is to enliven the street.”
Read more: Plans unveiled for E. Market | Philadelphia Business Journal
Much of this is hinging on a bill to allow digital signage along Market East. The bill is currently being amended or rewritten, but will probably be passed in some form.
i can't look at it anymore. it makes me appreciate the gallery
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