Philadelphia 2035 (Penn: middle-class, apartment, crime)

[Pennsport]

You guys tracking the expansion west in southern NL?
https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phil...federal-donuts

I lived at 5th and Brown (the still kicking Liberties Lofts) in 2004, when 5th was the hard stop west. NL is basically now ending at 8th (or at the very least, Franklin St.). Hopefully it can continue eating away west until it connects to Broad.
Sadly, there is a lot of mess in-between 8th and Broad. A fugitive just shot a couple of cops at 10th and Brown like a week ago. Regardless, if we can just push the mess further north, hopefully rational and civilized society can reclaim North Poplar soon.

This would also free up SO much tax-payer money in police responses; and we all know we could really use the tax proceeds to impact the underlying issues out there rather than paying detectives triple time to figure out which teenage drug gang blasted which teenage drug gang. Oh well, guess we'll see...

Edit: I know for sure MkStEl will come back with some correction proving that the area I'm talking about is actually outside of the traditional boundaries of NL. He will almost most certainly tie it to Harvard Sq. and his time there, somehow . He will also certainly quote several pieces of literature or short articles in one of our esteemed local journals that barely relates to the conversation. Sooo... to save the pain for everyone, correction: the area west of 5th street is NOT northern liberties, currently. Shameless shelf-promotion, with zero humility, is simply too exhausting to address.

[mphilly]

I know you’re just having fun but I like MarketStEl’s history lessons, it adds a lot to this forum. But I agree, the good area of Northern Liberties is really expanding. Despite all the bad news, good stuff is happening in a lot of neighborhoods.

[Redddog]

lol. That whole post seems like a shot at MarketstEl. Haha.

There is a TON of stuff happening between Callowhill and Spring Garden. Development north and west will happen organically and soon.

[MarketStEl]

Short answer: Poplar is poppin'. (5th to ~10th, SG to Girard. There west to Broad is West Poplar.)

[JamesJay64]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

You guys tracking the expansion west in southern NL?
https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phil...federal-donuts

I lived at 5th and Brown (the still kicking Liberties Lofts) in 2004, when 5th was the hard stop west. NL is basically now ending at 8th (or at the very least, Franklin St.). Hopefully it can continue eating away west until it connects to Broad.
Sadly, there is a lot of mess in-between 8th and Broad. A fugitive just shot a couple of cops at 10th and Brown like a week ago. Regardless, if we can just push the mess further north, hopefully rational and civilized society can reclaim North Poplar soon.

This would also free up SO much tax-payer money in police responses; and we all know we could really use the tax proceeds to impact the underlying issues out there rather than paying detectives triple time to figure out which teenage drug gang blasted which teenage drug gang. Oh well, guess we'll see...

Edit: I know for sure MkStEl will come back with some correction proving that the area I'm talking about is actually outside of the traditional boundaries of NL. He will almost most certainly tie it to Harvard Sq. and his time there, somehow . He will also certainly quote several pieces of literature or short articles in one of our esteemed local journals that barely relates to the conversation. Sooo... to save the pain for everyone, correction: the area west of 5th street is NOT northern liberties, currently. Shameless shelf-promotion, with zero humility, is simply too exhausting to address.

My impression is that the area remains bad because of the large swaths of low-income housing. It's low-density with the ugly, atrocious, poorly planned single-family suburban style homes, and that complex on the east side of 13th st. My girlfriend lives in a building by the Aldi on Broad and has heard gunshots/shootings occur several times, all in that specific Poplar area.

I'm sure studies have been done on this, but it seems like integrating low-income housing into normal neighborhoods, distributed throughout would make things a lot safer than having these huge areas of it with very few businesses and non-resident foot traffic.

Also I love reading MarketstEl's content.

[thedirtypirate]

The development in “southern” northern liberties is mostly occurring towards Callowhill/Spring Garden.

And that area you are talking near the Richard Allen homes is near one of MarketSt’s favorite developments in all of Philly: The Poplar.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by JamesJay64

My impression is that the area remains bad because of the large swaths of low-income housing. It's low-density with the ugly, atrocious, poorly planned single-family suburban style homes, and that complex on the east side of 13th st. My girlfriend lives in a building by the Aldi on Broad and has heard gunshots/shootings occur several times, all in that specific Poplar area.

I'm sure studies have been done on this, but it seems like integrating low-income housing into normal neighborhoods, distributed throughout would make things a lot safer than having these huge areas of it with very few businesses and non-resident foot traffic.

Also I love reading MarketstEl's content.

RAL, the owner/developer of Broadridge, approached Richard Allen New Generation, the registered community organization (RCO) for that project (the partly reworked Richard Allen Homes), when it was planning the building to ask what neighborhood-serving amenity it would like to see on the site.

That huge Aldi on Broadridge's street floor is there because that was how they answered the question.

The Poplar is on the other side of the Richard Allen Homes, between the project and the 9th Street SEPTA railroad viaduct.

There's subsidized low-income housing scattered across several blocks of the Gayborhood, including the 1200 block of Locust, the 250 block of South 13th (the row of rehabbed rowhouses to the north of the John Anderson Aoartments) and the 1100 block of Pine. (I knew a very gentle gay man who lived in one of the units in the 1100 block of Pine, which he qualified for because he received Social Security disability.) There's not much in the way of violent crime on any of those blocks. I think deconcentrating the poverty and scattering it around does work.

[Flyers Girl]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

You guys tracking the expansion west in southern NL?
https://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-phil...federal-donuts

I lived at 5th and Brown (the still kicking Liberties Lofts) in 2004, when 5th was the hard stop west. NL is basically now ending at 8th (or at the very least, Franklin St.). Hopefully it can continue eating away west until it connects to Broad.
Sadly, there is a lot of mess in-between 8th and Broad. A fugitive just shot a couple of cops at 10th and Brown like a week ago. Regardless, if we can just push the mess further north, hopefully rational and civilized society can reclaim North Poplar soon.

<snip>

I get what you're trying to say here and I generally agree with and support gentrification. However, in response to the bold above, what about the people who live further north who will have to deal with "the mess" when it arrives at their door? Lower-income individuals have to live somewhere, but low-income doesn't automatically equate to crime and "mess."

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Flyers Girl

I get what you're trying to say here and I generally agree with and support gentrification. However, in response to the bold above, what about the people who live further north who will have to deal with "the mess" when it arrives at their door? Lower-income individuals have to live somewhere, but low-income doesn't automatically equate to crime and "mess."

See JamesJay64's post three above yours and my endorsement of his proposition.

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by Flyers Girl

I get what you're trying to say here and I generally agree with and support gentrification. However, in response to the bold above, what about the people who live further north who will have to deal with "the mess" when it arrives at their door? Lower-income individuals have to live somewhere, but low-income doesn't automatically equate to crime and "mess."

Well, I'll tell you from personal experience, that area was certainly low-income and also certainly "a mess" (in many ways) in the early 2000s. I'm not necessarily equating the two, but I'm just glad I don't hear gun shots and sirens 24/7 when I visit friends there. I certainly used to - all day and night.

Times and situations change, and vibrant, healthy cities are ever-fluid. NL and Poplar neighborhoods are no places to halt progress because 20 years ago the city built thousands of low-income housing units. That area is basically one mile from the heart of our city. I don't have an answer on where to place those that are largely entirely supported by society. We (society) have supported most of the individuals living there for decades. We can easily support them elsewhere. People have inhabited NL for hundreds of years. The neighborhoods don't "belong" to anyone because people have lived there for 40 or 50 years. Same goes for every neighborhood in my opinion. This is not a racial issue, it's a market value, capitalist society issue and it's critical for the advancement of our entire city.