Philadelphia 2035 (Erie, Horsham, Clark: federal, economy, compared)

[Vetalsh]

Hi! How much is avarage price of rent 1 br apartment or house in Philadelphia? Is it easy to find rent here?

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

But I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the Navy Yard extension having a higher ridership than the Roosevelt Boulevard extension, let alone the massive impact it would have on both NE Philly and the never-fully-built Broad Street subway system.

It's only like a couple minute bus ride from Pattison to the Navy Yard. Sure, it's a big psychological impact to get the one seat ride. But I'm just having trouble picturing it outperforming the NE Spur with all of the residents and jobs located there.

I think an extension to the Navy Yard is a better investment for the future. I have a friend who works there. He takes the line to the stadiums, and either walks the final mile (on nice days) or waits for a company-provided shuttle. You can see that it will easier for the city to sell the Navy Yard as a place to locate your office if the line is extended.

While I agree there would likely be greater readership with a NE extension, the better economic return to the city would be if more jobs are attracted to the Navy Yard. Imagine looking down South Broad in 10 years and seeing an office cluster something like University City looks today. Over a decade or two, if the Navy Yard becomes a massive business center, it may even generate greater ridership.

[2e1m5a]

How much room is there for residential development at the Navy Yard and what current residential plans are there? That could add to ridership.

Also, would the Roosevelt Boulevard subway terminate at Frankford Transportation Center? I know this is very unlikely but it would be nice if it could connect to MFL, the BSL and continue down via City Ave to tie in another major thoroughfare that could use high speed rail.

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by 2e1m5a

How much room is there for residential development at the Navy Yard and what current residential plans are there? That could add to ridership.

The master plan calls for over 1000 units, presumably accommodating more than one person: Robert A.M. Stern Architects - The Navy Yard Master Plan 2013 Update. In terms of economic impact, the plan claims it be an employment center for more than 10,000 jobs.

[asiandudeyo]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

Girard Square Plans Coming Early Next Year - Development Watch - Curbed Philly

Let's hope that it is not lip service again....
If this is being realized, it is most likely spur a growth on Market East. So instead buying a house in Jenkintown in several years, I will just end up staying in Center City for good

[2e1m5a]

Originally Posted by jm02

The master plan calls for over 1000 units, presumably accommodating more than one person: Robert A.M. Stern Architects - The Navy Yard Master Plan 2013 Update. In terms of economic impact, the plan claims it be an employment center for more than 10,000 jobs.

Thanks! Pretty cool.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by jm02

The master plan calls for over 1000 units, presumably accommodating more than one person: Robert A.M. Stern Architects - The Navy Yard Master Plan 2013 Update. In terms of economic impact, the plan claims it be an employment center for more than 10,000 jobs.

It will house 12,000 employees next year lol. Think they already met that goal.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by 2e1m5a

How much room is there for residential development at the Navy Yard and what current residential plans are there? That could add to ridership.

Also, would the Roosevelt Boulevard subway terminate at Frankford Transportation Center? I know this is very unlikely but it would be nice if it could connect to MFL, the BSL and continue down via City Ave to tie in another major thoroughfare that could use high speed rail.

The Roosevelt Boulevard subway would connect to the Broad Street Line, I believe at or around Hunting Park Station. In which case the BSL would start becoming the actual subway system it's supposed to be (what exists now is just the trunk line of the planned system). The BSL plan called for multiple spurs, including Roosevelt Boulevard, Germantown, Roxborough, and others. Buses running down practically every street of Germantown packed to the brim with people trying to get to Broad and Erie wasn't the actual plan, nor was folks from all over the NE taking buses into Frankford and Olney, it's just the way things turned out.

I believe SEPTA would also want an extension of the MFL to Bustleton to offer a direct connection between the Blvd subway and the MFL.

You can see that it will easier for the city to sell the Navy Yard as a place to locate your office if the line is extended.

It's not like there are no jobs in the northeast.

But the issues aren't really even on the same level of discussion. Nor should they be. The Navy Yard extension is a short extension that'll help out a couple thousand people tops (those who work, live or visit a specific place, the Navy Yard, and take the BSL). Other than that, every single shortfall of the Broad Street Line still exists (and the main one is that it's a train that just runs up and down Broad Street, well under capacity, that most folks have to take long bus rides to get to).

Whereas a NE spur (or NW, for that matter, to get even more hypothetical) is a much bigger picture plan, focused on transforming the everyday transportation of Philadelphia.

And for the record, as other people have pointed out in the past, and I understand about myself, and people should keep in mind, I do have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about the Navy Yard BSL extension. If for no other reason, I get to see firsthand every day the incredible waste of potential transit oriented commercial and industrial developments that already exists on top of our subway and railroad lines. And it's damn tragic (I only mention this because it seems like many are unaware or oblivious to it). So if the city was serious about linking jobs to transit, there are actually a lot of ways to go about it that have absolutely nothing to do with building more subway lines and could give some neighborhoods the opportunity to get some bottom-up rejuvenation going.

[2e1m5a]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

The Roosevelt Boulevard subway would connect to the Broad Street Line, I believe at or around Hunting Park Station. In which case the BSL would start becoming the actual subway system it's supposed to be (what exists now is just the trunk line of the planned system). The BSL plan called for multiple spurs, including Roosevelt Boulevard, Germantown, Roxborough, and others. Buses running down practically every street of Germantown packed to the brim with people trying to get to Broad and Erie wasn't the actual plan, nor was folks from all over the NE taking buses into Frankford and Olney, it's just the way things turned out.

I believe SEPTA would also want an extension of the MFL to Bustleton to offer a direct connection between the Blvd subway and the MFL.

Thanks, that would really be amazing-hopefully it happens. I do wish Germantown Ave had a subway but it's probably not feasible at this point-maybe Wayne Ave or enclose the tracks and turn the R7 and R8 into quasi-subways.

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

It's not like there are no jobs in the northeast.

But the issues aren't really even on the same level of discussion. Nor should they be. The Navy Yard extension is a short extension that'll help out a couple thousand people tops (those who work, live or visit a specific place, the Navy Yard, and take the BSL). Other than that, every single shortfall of the Broad Street Line still exists (and the main one is that it's a train that just runs up and down Broad Street, well under capacity, that most folks have to take long bus rides to get to).

Whereas a NE spur (or NW, for that matter, to get even more hypothetical) is a much bigger picture plan, focused on transforming the everyday transportation of Philadelphia.

Since you quoted me, I'll respond. There seems to be an either/or mindset here: we take the BS line one mile further south to support continued development of the Navy Yard or we do a major line extension to the NE. In a world of unlimited funds, it would be great to have both built. The question for me, however, is which is the best investment. While both will be expensive, I can't even fathom the costs of building a NE line. As I stated earlier, this simpler effort to extend the BS line south to the Navy Yard will be a valuable selling point to those who might consider locating jobs and residential development there. For each new job, each new city resident and each new structure erected, the city coffers gain revenue in the form of wage and property taxes. The return on a one mile extension looks like "low hanging fruit" to me, compared with a project on the scale of a NE extension.