Philadelphia 2035 (Lancaster, Progress, Franklin: frost, stable, assistant)

[mphilly]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

But the funny thing is, historically speaking, this city had closer ties to the South than any other in the Northeast.

Penn's medical school trained most of the South's doctors prior to the Civil War.

And I can't think of a mob of anti-abolitionists burning down an abolitionists' meeting hall anywhere north of here. That last, I think, can stand as a proxy for pro-Southern sentiment among the locals.

There were major anti-abolitionist riots in New York in the 1800’s so it was not out of the ordinary north of here either.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

But the funny thing is, historically speaking, this city had closer ties to the South than any other in the Northeast.

Penn's medical school trained most of the South's doctors prior to the Civil War.

And I can't think of a mob of anti-abolitionists burning down an abolitionists' meeting hall anywhere north of here. That last, I think, can stand as a proxy for pro-Southern sentiment among the locals.

There was a fabulous exhibit at the NY Historical Society a few year back about NYC's financial ties to the south because of
the cotton trade and textiles. It was a complete, deep and total partnership. It essentially refutes some of what you are saying above.

Right now there is an equally good exhibit about Jim Crow.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

But the funny thing is, historically speaking, this city had closer ties to the South than any other in the Northeast.

Penn's medical school trained most of the South's doctors prior to the Civil War.

And I can't think of a mob of anti-abolitionists burning down an abolitionists' meeting hall anywhere north of here. That last, I think, can stand as a proxy for pro-Southern sentiment among the locals.

Don't forget that the push south, aside from coastal areas was The Great Philadelphia Wagon Road.

Then, in the early 20th century there was a reverse migration of blacks and whites, mostly from Virginia & North Carolina. After WWII, when the mills closed, many of the mill workers went to North Carolina. . .

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by kyb01

There was a fabulous exhibit at the NY Historical Society a few year back about NYC's financial ties to the south because of
the cotton trade and textiles. It was a complete, deep and total partnership. It essentially refutes some of what you are saying above.

Right now there is an equally good exhibit about Jim Crow.

During the Civil War, NC Quakers traveled back & forth to Philadelphia.

[nephi215]

Originally Posted by cpomp

I agree, I don't know where people are getting these Southern comparisons from. Philadelphia is very much Northeast city, not more Southern than New York. You do not start to see Southern references until you hit DC, (in my opinion).

Agreed. Also, Linguistically, the Philadelphia accent is clearly Northeastern. Philly has the short a split, "merry, marry, mary" three way distinction, all northeastern traits.. Everyone knows this. Yes, Philly has a commonality with the Midland dialect (the "O" sound), but not the South. If you are trying to go by southbound_295's logic, then because the New York accent is non rhetoric just like the coastal southern accents, then the New York accent has southern attributes, and is part of the southern family of accents . The Philly accent does not have quintessential southern accent attributes like the southern drawl, glide deletions such as "my" pronounced as "mai", or "time" pronounced as "taim", etc. Also, the Philly accent is different from the Baltimore accent although they have a somewhat similar "o" sound (which is actually stretched further in Baltimore). However, there are southern attributes present in Baltimore's accent that are certainly noticeable such as glide deletions. Southern like attributes are really noticeable starting at Baltimore and south.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Don't forget that the push south, aside from coastal areas was The Great Philadelphia Wagon Road.

Then, in the early 20th century there was a reverse migration of blacks and whites, mostly from Virginia & North Carolina. After WWII, when the mills closed, many of the mill workers went to North Carolina. . .

OT kind of. I was near Gastonia and Charlotte a couple of weeks ago for a wedding. You mentioned Gastonia as being a destination for some of those mill workers.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by kyb01

OT kind of. I was near Gastonia and Charlotte a couple of weeks ago for a wedding. You mentioned Gastonia as being a destination for some of those mill workers.

Gastonia was a primary destination for the Philadelphia mill workers. Their descendants are all around the area. There are a few hoagie shops in the area that make acceptable hoagies. They aren't as good as one in Philadelphia, but they are OK.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by nephi215

Agreed. Also, Linguistically, the Philadelphia accent is clearly Northeastern. Philly has the short a split, "merry, marry, mary" three way distinction, all northeastern traits.. Everyone knows this. Yes, Philly has a commonality with the Midland dialect (the "O" sound), but not the South. If you are trying to go by southbound_295's logic, then because the New York accent is non rhetoric just like the coastal southern accents, then the New York accent has southern attributes, and is part of the southern family of accents . The Philly accent does not have quintessential southern accent attributes like the southern drawl, glide deletions such as "my" pronounced as "mai", or "time" pronounced as "taim", etc. Also, the Philly accent is different from the Baltimore accent although they have a somewhat similar "o" sound (which is actually stretched further in Baltimore). However, there are southern attributes present in Baltimore's accent that are certainly noticeable such as glide deletions. Southern like attributes are really noticeable starting at Baltimore and south.

You do realize that southern accents vary, don't you?

The University of Pennsylvania has been doing a study of American English & the accents for at least 60 years. There's a map online. Philadelphia, Baltimore, South Jersey, Delaware, etc. are labeled as the MidAtlantic accent.

As to marry Mary, merry, this is the area where you can be wished a Murray Christmas & when referring to the state where Baltimore is located be told that Baltimore is in Merlin. Not everyone does it, but if you're tuned into the accent of the speaker, you do run across it through the area. That is unique to the area.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

You do realize that southern accents vary, don't you?

The University of Pennsylvania has been doing a study of American English & the accents for at least 60 years. There's a map online. Philadelphia, Baltimore, South Jersey, Delaware, etc. are labeled as the MidAtlantic accent.

As to marry Mary, merry, this is the area where you can be wished a Murray Christmas & when referring to the state where Baltimore is located be told that Baltimore is in Merlin. Not everyone does it, but if you're tuned into the accent of the speaker, you do run across it through the area. That is unique to the area.

Well, that definitely sets it off from the Maryland rural accent.

I still remember the phone call I fielded while working in Penn's graduate arts & sciences office from a woman in "Westminster, Maarlin."

"Westminster where?"

"Maarlin. Westminster, Maarlin."

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Well, that definitely sets it off from the Maryland rural accent.

I still remember the phone call I fielded while working in Penn's graduate arts & sciences office from a woman in "Westminster, Maarlin."

"Westminster where?"

"Maarlin. Westminster, Maarlin."

I worked not too far from Westminster for several years. I heard Merlin & Maarlin. Merlin closer to Baltimore, Maarlin further out, but sometimes they didn't follow that rule. Merlin was definitely more frequent.

Then there's phone. Baltimore people frequently say fayn compared to Philadelphians saying faone.

As a native Midwesterner, I've been tuned into the accent thing since the family moved to South Jersey when I was 13. I'm sure that you notice things too.