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Not no new additional cars; just not "tons" of them.
Someone living in this complex and working either from home or in Center City, for instance, could probably ditch their car if they owned one by moving into this building, given the transit service, the presence of a large-format supermarket on its street floor, the presence of a natural/organic foods supermarket and a large small-format Target across Broad Street, and those two supermarkets at 10th and South — this site is as far from those as it's possible to get in Hawthorne — and the Italian Market.
A family of four who shops the traditional way Americans do will drive to that Giant, but I do believe that there are also those who adopt more "European" shopping habits in areas like this simply because the stores are convenient to them, and a single person or couple could even do a week's worth of food shopping and haul it home in a granny cart.
And again, if the near neighbors don't have lots of mouths to feed, it will probably turn out that they can accomplish their shopping faster on foot than by driving to the store, given that they probably have to walk to where their cars are parked in the first place, then cruise around looking for an open parking space once back home.
There's a thread over on City Planning where a resident of a dense city neighborhood like Hawthorne tells the tale of a friend from Dallas who visited them. Both of them went to an ice cream stand about 300 feet from their residence. The poster walked there, while the Dallasite drove. Guess who got there and back faster, with their cone largely intact? The Dallasite later moved to a city that had denser neighborhoods like the one her friend lived in because she liked the experience so much.
That new small-format supermarket at 8th and Market is getting good traffic already. I don't think anyone drives to it.
I get what you're saying but this will still attract a lot of additional traffic. Remote workers? FedEx, UPS, Amazon deliveries all day...food deliveries...rideshares to go out, day and night...semi-trucks supplying the businesses...etc...runs to the big box stores on Columbus Blvd, Delaware, NJ etc.
Believe me, Americans need to start walking as much as possible. I had out of town guests that wouldn't walk from Love Park to Reading Market Terminal...lol. No wonder there's an obesity health crisis.
Why doesn't the city close-off, even if just weekends, Sansom/13th/12th Streets? Permanent walkable ''fun zones'' in the heart of walkable Center City. Perfect place to start.
I, too, think the "equity" argument is a total bastardization of the meaning of "equity," and it's honestly absurd in its irony. But that's all I'll say on that topic.
But I think it's a mischaracterization to suggest proponents of a completely narrowed Washington Avenue are just some naive Europhiles. The fact of that matter is the roadway is no longer compatible with the needs and demands of the city, despite a very vocal minority saying otherwise. Roadways that are compatible with a very dense major city with lots of pedestrians and bikers aren't inherently European. In fact, pedestrian-focused infrastructure is very common across the globe. And at one time, this kind of walkability/bikeability was also the norm common across the US.
It just that Americans have long-forgotten how to build and maintain communities that prioritize human beings over cars. And to me, it's a common sense issue that should not be seen as a pet project for "woke urban liberals." It should be seen as stitching South Philly and Center City back together by overcoming a physical barrier that should have never existed in the first place.
Washington Avenue is a diverse mix of businesses, people, income levels, housing projects, new high-end residences...in need of a revamp...I'm not saying lane reductions necessarily. An Avenue that supported working and middle class businesses, and still does, is now a ''physical barrier'' to some yet is supporting the next wave of immigrants.
This Wash Ave project is seen as a pet project for the ''woke urban liberals''; key term omitted in your quote is ''white'' as in ''white woke urban liberals''. The same folks who encouraged and had a major hand in the ''equity movement'' that will of course, as we've just seen, be manipulated to kabosh not only road diets but at least limit or end residential construction in certain areas, as needed.
Bottom line: POC communities want to keep Washington Avenue as it is and see these ''improvements'' as white $$ gentrification and displacement; that's why the new ''equity card'' was just successfully dealt. POC displacement is systemic racism after all...this all comes back full circle. The white woke liberals know how to fix black folks' lives and know what's best for them after all.
I know some rust belt cities have and are planning road diets for wide streets that no longer see traffic but Washington Avenue is currently not a candidate for the approved reduction to basically 2 traffic lanes.
Respectfully, perhaps someone should present your statements and theories as to how things ''should be'' etc to the working and middle class white, POC, immigrants/business owners/workers/residents in and around Washington Avenue, from Delaware Avenue to the Schuykill. Perfect place to start: Point Breeze Community whatever it is.
Washington Avenue is a diverse mix of businesses, people, income levels, housing projects, new high-end residences...in need of a revamp...I'm not saying lane reductions necessarily. An Avenue that supported working and middle class businesses, and still does, is now a ''physical barrier'' to some yet is supporting the next wave of immigrants.
....
Respectfully, perhaps someone should present your statements and theories as to how things ''should be'' etc to the working and middle class white, POC, immigrants/business owners/workers/residents in and around Washington Avenue, from Delaware Avenue to the Schuykill. Perfect place to start: Point Breeze Community whatever it is.
Let me be a little clearer: I certainly acknowledge that Washington Avenue is a major hub of commerce on which many POC business owners depend. Point completely taken. But I can also recognize from an urban planning perspective that it's a physical barrier to pedestrian safety and debases Philadelphia's urban form and function. A reasonable person can acknowledge both of those things. And it's not telling people what "should be;" it's just stating different but important perspectives. And you can point to the "hypocrisy" of the "white liberal gentrifiers" all you want, but that's not what this is about.
So, let's take another angle, here. What do we do when we have two competing but reasonable interests? You do your very best to come to a compromise, which could have made the outcome much better than the sh*tstorm that it is now. Compromise is "equity." But that's not the process that occurred here. What happened was that the public interest and a very in-depth long-term planning process was completely undermined by a last minute political decision. I don't care what race or political persuasion you are--that's always the wrong answer.
Let me be a little clearer: I certainly acknowledge that Washington Avenue is a major hub of commerce on which many POC business owners depend. Point completely taken. But I can also recognize from an urban planning perspective that it's a physical barrier to pedestrian safety and debases Philadelphia's urban form and function. A reasonable person can acknowledge both of those things. And it's not telling people what "should be;" it's just stating different but important perspectives. And you can point to the "hypocrisy" of the "white liberal gentrifiers" all you want, but that's not what this is about.
So, let's take another angle, here. What do we do when we have two competing but reasonable interests? You do your very best to come to a compromise, which could have made the outcome much better than the sh*tstorm that it is now. Compromise is "equity." But that's not the process that occurred here. What happened was that the public interest and a very in-depth long-term planning process was completely undermined by a last minute political decision. I don't care what race or political persuasion you are--that's always the wrong answer.
I've gone too far in my posts but as gently as I can, there are some poster(s) who routinely make totally baseless claims that "woke white liberals" are to blame for everything under the sun. Rational responses don't work, why? Because they really, really, hate white liberals so why do facts matter? In short, don't waste your time, just consider the source.
Why is there a parking garage component with this project?
BTW, how many parking spaces will there be when all phases of this massive mixed-use, yet heavy on the residential side, project is complete.
So far we know what the projected total # of units will be, the retail sf, the 40,000 sf Giant....and a ''parking garage''. What are the ADA requirements? Semi-trucks will, for example, need to supply the Giant supermarket.
Who said ''encourage more car usage''? It's a given that this project will add a lot of vehicular traffic to the area. Sorry.
None of that is a foregone conclusion. Why is there a parking garage component? Because it's adding thousands of apartments. Does that mean some people will have a car? Yes. Will some people not? Absolutely. In fact, one of the things people mainly use there cars for is to go grocery shopping and that aspect is completely covered by the addition of a full scale grocery store on the bottom floor (none the less the Sprouts and Target across the street). Looking at the renderings, the drive isles that enter the side appear to be on the 13th street side between the other building.
I've gone too far in my posts but as gently as I can, there are some poster(s) who routinely make totally baseless claims that "woke white liberals" are to blame for everything under the sun. Rational responses don't work, why? Because they really, really, hate white liberals so why do facts matter? In short, don't waste your time, just consider the source.
I actually find it a very interesting topic though, and truly believe above all, that what you are describing is a well placed tumor of anti-intellectualism that is not only plaguing the "far left", but also an even larger percentage of the right!
To put it in the most simple terms, a large percentage of America could care less about what is being said, they only care about who is saying it! I could provide 50 different studies that show lower class and people of color benefit the most from safer streets, and the response from the left and right would be exactly the same, something like "well that doesn't pass the sniff test" simply because it came from the "hoity toity" guy trying to tell POC/MAGA/whatever what to do. Instead of being objective about things that can be quantified, everything in the world has become subjective. From public health, to policing, to street safety.
IMO one of the best examples of this locally is the "tree planting program". Or really a survey to see how you "feel" about street trees. It's a subjective take on an objective problem. The local news loves to print words saying things like "having tree shade in the summer is only available in wealthier neighborhoods". Which maybe an objective thing to say, but the "objective" fix would be to create more trees everywhere, not Helen Gym's 52 question survey that only the RCO presidents are filling out.
It reminds me of a phrase Asimov used in 'Foundation' to describe the bureaucratic decay of the Galactic Empire.
"It (the government) degenerated eventually into a blind instrument for maintenance of the status quo"
Last edited by thedirtypirate; 02-09-2022 at 06:52 AM..
What are people's opinions on the Philadelphia (city) mask mandate? New York State & City mandate expires today.
Are people over it? Not ready yet? Recommended but not mandatory? (not a loaded question).
I think Philadelphia should ease the mandate and let people choose for themselves at this point. I may still wear one sometimes, but the mandates are getting old.
What are people's opinions on the Philadelphia (city) mask mandate? New York State & City mandate expires today.
Are people over it? Not ready yet? Recommended but not mandatory? (not a loaded question).
I think Philadelphia should ease the mandate and let people choose for themselves at this point. I may still wear one sometimes, but the mandates are getting old.
The infection curves seem to be falling, and the hospitalization rates stayed flat with the onset of Omicron.
I think we're all worn out with mandates by now. No reason for Philadelphia to remain a holdout. Let's lift the school mandate and leave the mask/no-mask/masks optional decision up to individual business owners now. I'd be fine with "masks still recommended" too.
What are people's opinions on the Philadelphia (city) mask mandate? New York State & City mandate expires today.
Are people over it? Not ready yet? Recommended but not mandatory? (not a loaded question).
I think Philadelphia should ease the mandate and let people choose for themselves at this point. I may still wear one sometimes, but the mandates are getting old.
I think in general people are ready for it to be over, however, I think the main point of contention is classrooms and offices. Two places you are forced to be around a bunch of other people inside for 8+ hrs a day. I don't have kids and am not a teacher, so I don't really have a fully formulated position on when the right time for that is. A lot of larger companies instituted vaccine mandates so in that regard, I think it should be at your own discretion. Everywhere else should be optional.
The infection curves seem to be falling, and the hospitalization rates stayed flat with the onset of Omicron.
I think we're all worn out with mandates by now. No reason for Philadelphia to remain a holdout. Let's lift the school mandate and leave the mask/no-mask/masks optional decision up to individual business owners now. I'd be fine with "masks still recommended" too.
Didn't the city just reiterate they are not ready to lift the mandate? My guess is another few months, which seems unnecessary.
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