Do you feel the "Trolleys" are the worst when it comes to Transportation in this city? (Philadelphia: credit card, professionals)

[chris123678]

Septa made a big mistake when removing a few of their Light rail routes.

Light rail routes ( for example, route 36,) would run less frequently in comparison to heavy rail routes ( example, the Market Frankford Line).
The current light rail system is great in my opinion. Most of the light rail lines are bright, because majority of them are the subway surface routes which run underground beginning at the 40th street portal.
Septa can and will improve these trams.

Trolleys aren't the worst in my opinion. Can't say the same for the Broad Street Subway

[FBJ]

Originally Posted by chris123678

Septa made a big mistake when removing a few of their Light rail routes.

Light rail routes ( for example, route 36,) would run less frequently in comparison to heavy rail routes ( example, the Market Frankford Line).
The current light rail system is great in my opinion. Most of the light rail lines are bright, because majority of them are the subway surface routes which run underground beginning at the 40th street portal.
Septa can and will improve these trams.

Trolleys aren't the worst in my opinion. Can't say the same for the Broad Street Subway

The 36 trolley doesn't run anymore?

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by chris123678

Trolleys aren't the worst in my opinion. Can't say the same for the Broad Street Subway

From my experience, the Broad Street Line is the most reliable of city rail transit. I don't have any explicit data to back me up on that, to my knowledge SEPTA doesn't keep on time performance stats for the BSL, but I follow SEPTA's service advisories on twitter and the amount of texts concerning the Broad Street Line are practically non-existent. Trolley service disruptions are frequent (and the tunnel is crowded) - although you have other good options in West Philly at least - and Market Frankford line disruptions seem to be occasional. Not only that - but as far as scheduling goes, if I take 10 trips on the BSL per week, at least 9 of them stick to the schedule to the minute. 9 minutes from Broad and Erie to 8th and Market, leaves on time, arrives on time, easy to plan bus connections. You can't beat it with a stick.

[FBJ]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

From my experience, the Broad Street Line is the most reliable of city rail transit. I don't have any explicit data to back me up on that, to my knowledge SEPTA doesn't keep on time performance stats for the BSL, but I follow SEPTA's service advisories on twitter and the amount of texts concerning the Broad Street Line are practically non-existent. Trolley service disruptions are frequent (and the tunnel is crowded) - although you have other good options in West Philly at least - and Market Frankford line disruptions seem to be occasional. Not only that - but as far as scheduling goes, if I take 10 trips on the BSL per week, at least 9 of them stick to the schedule to the minute. 9 minutes from Broad and Erie to 8th and Market, leaves on time, arrives on time, easy to plan bus connections. You can't beat it with a stick.

I have something to back up that the BSL is the most reliable............"The express train"

[chris123678]

Originally Posted by WestPhillyDude75

The 36 trolley doesn't run anymore?

36 is still in service and most likely will never be taken out of service. Way to many people ride the 36. IT's the longest of the Subway Surface routes, it's longer than the el and subway.

I just used it as an example.

[chris123678]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

From my experience, the Broad Street Line is the most reliable of city rail transit. I don't have any explicit data to back me up on that, to my knowledge SEPTA doesn't keep on time performance stats for the BSL, but I follow SEPTA's service advisories on twitter and the amount of texts concerning the Broad Street Line are practically non-existent. Trolley service disruptions are frequent (and the tunnel is crowded) - although you have other good options in West Philly at least - and Market Frankford line disruptions seem to be occasional. Not only that - but as far as scheduling goes, if I take 10 trips on the BSL per week, at least 9 of them stick to the schedule to the minute. 9 minutes from Broad and Erie to 8th and Market, leaves on time, arrives on time, easy to plan bus connections. You can't beat it with a stick.

I agree with you about it's performance. I get text messages sent to my phone by Septa to inform me when the subway and el are having issues. I get text messages everyday concerning the el, never for bsl line.

My problem is the danger of the stations and how infrequently some of them are used. Perhaps because I don't ride the BSL nearly as much as I do the el.

I'm used to crowded stops, going into a subway station where 1 or 2 shady people are there is an issue for me.

[gwillyfromphilly]

Originally Posted by chris123678

I agree with you about it's performance. I get text messages sent to my phone by Septa to inform me when the subway and el are having issues. I get text messages everyday concerning the el, never for bsl line.

My problem is the danger of the stations and how infrequently some of them are used. Perhaps because I don't ride the BSL nearly as much as I do the el.

I'm used to crowded stops, going into a subway station where 1 or 2 shady people are there is an issue for me.

Do you at least put the BSL ahead of the Patco(Philly stations only)?

[Mimidae]

Nothing to contribute except to say that I'm really looking forward to riding the trolley now. The trolley! Soon, soon, my medium-sized butt will mingle with the corpulent flesh of strangers on your hard plastic seats.

Addendum: that was not in any way meant to sound dirty. I just currently live in a place without many public transportation options, and I get really jazzed about riding subways and such in other cities.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly

Do you at least put the BSL ahead of the Patco(Philly stations only)?

Whats wrong with the PATCO stations?

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by chris123678

I agree with you about it's performance. I get text messages sent to my phone by Septa to inform me when the subway and el are having issues. I get text messages everyday concerning the el, never for bsl line.

My problem is the danger of the stations and how infrequently some of them are used. Perhaps because I don't ride the BSL nearly as much as I do the el.

I'm used to crowded stops, going into a subway station where 1 or 2 shady people are there is an issue for me.

I understand where you're coming from. But where I get on, at Broad and Erie, it is downright bustling - several bus connections can be made, including the H, XH, 23, 53, and 56. I feel just as safe at Erie as I do at Walnut-Locust. It also serves, along with Olney, as the main way you get from NW Philly to the BSL. Local stations that are notably busy are Cecil B Moore and Allegheny, both due to the presence of Temple.

In fact, I think all express stops are pretty busy - with the glaring exception of the Chinatown and Fairmount BRS stations (both of which are similar to how you describe). And in general local stations are less well used - but I think that just shows how the BSL is utilized. The blocks surrounding the BSL are no more densely populated than the rest of Philly, in many cases they are extremely underutilized. Even when I lived in Center City, I'd be surprised at how empty Lombard-South was. SEPTA really shows how it mismanages rail with the BSL in South Philly - with its parallel bus service that runs just as frequent as the subway. There's no real reason the 23, running 2 blocks away from the Broad Street Line through most of North and South Philly, needs to run as often as it does in NW, where it serves as the most important feeder TO the BSL. The Market-Frankford Line has a significantly higher ridership than the BSL - about 40k per day - but it also has major connections at both terminus points. The bulk of BSL ridership is coming from North Philly, on both the local and the 3 variations of express trains.

But that's a whole other topic.

Back to the trolleys, they are good overall. They are able to provide local service to neighborhoods, and express service trough Central Philadelphia, a unique feature. When I lived in Minneapolis, they had a modern light rail line, the Hiawatha Line, and the annoying thing about it was that it had its own right of way through South Minneapolis, stopping only every 10 blocks or so, but then traveled on the streets in Downtown Minneapolis, having to stop at lights. It would take longer to get through the small downtown by light rail than it would by car. I remember standing at Government Plaza station, waiting to get on the train, looking back at the light rail at Nicollet Mall Station, just about two blocks away, and it would be sitting there stuck in traffic for up to 5 minutes sometimes. It it misses a light, it has to wait for the next one, just like a bus.

The trolley tunnel is definitely one of the top transit assets Philly has, service disruptions on the trolleys notwithstanding. You can just look at SEPTA's schedules - on the 21 bus, it takes 12 minutes to get from 23rd and Chestnut to Broad and Chestnut - for a speed of 4 MPH. It takes a trolley 11 minutes to get from 40th and Baltimore to 15th and Market - for a speed of 14 MPH (I doubt you could drive it faster).