Why does Philadelphia Tolerate Beggars & Bums on the Street? (Washington: insurance, mortgages)

[Cnote11]

Originally Posted by Philain

Sorry if that wasn't clear. It's not folksy, it's just an analogy, apparently not a good one. Ignore it and the rest hopefully is self-explanatory: Homelessness is a symptom of the economy and the way we run our society (our choices about social safety nets, maybe other issues). Arresting the homeless is just hiding the symptom (and blaming the victim) instead of treating the disease. (Sorry, that's more metaphors, but I hope that helps.)

I understood the message, just not the particular connection between heat in the house and people getting sick, although I figured there was supposed to be some kind of casual effect where one shouldn't complain about a symptom if they aren't taking steps to fix the issue. Still, that particular analogy baffled me.


Also, Hello, asiandudeyo! Good to see you around. Everybody around here has seemed to get incredibly busy lately, as the number of posts per day of most posters seems to have significantly dropped from earlier this year.

[2e1m5a]

Originally Posted by Angus215

There is no such thing as a "victim of the system". You are what you make yourself. Sometimes the system HELPS you, sometimes it does not . . . sometimes people choose not to accept the help that is offered to them. Often times, people game the system and steal from those of us who pay taxes . . in turn making us the victims of "the system".

The monopolization and concentration of wealth the past 30 years or so proves otherwise.
Wages have been stagnant or nearly stagnant for 99% of people and prices on nearly everything as well as taxes have gone through the roof while the wealth and power of the .01% has exploded. That is simply not sustainable.

I won't even get into paying interest for the use of our own NATIONAL currency to a private/shadowy and international institution with their "too big to fail" banks planted deep in our economy. Way off topic, though.

[Angus215]

Originally Posted by 2e1m5a

The monopolization and concentration of wealth the past 30 years or so proves otherwise.
Wages have been stagnant for 99% of people and prices have soared on nearly everything while the wealth and power of the .01% has exploded.

So, I guess people who want to be in the top 1% should go out and do something to make it happen, rather than waiting for someone to hand it to them, then blaming the system when it doesn't happen. It usually involves a combination of hard work, creative thinking, and risk taking. "The system" is not doing anything to keep poor people poor. On the contrary, countless opportunities are given to those who are minorities and/or want to get out of poverty, including scholarships, student loans, and preference for jobs and government contracts.

[BlakeJones]

Originally Posted by 2e1m5a

The monopolization and concentration of wealth the past 30 years or so proves otherwise.
Wages have been stagnant for 99% of people and prices have soared on nearly everything while the wealth and power of the .01% has exploded.

Agree that there is certainly a problem, because the investor and business class has figured out how to increase and maintain production with minimal domestic employment. They can sell the same goods & services at a higher margin and grow the business without having to hire more people. The rich get richer, the poor get nothing.

But, if you look in depth at the US job market there is actually a severe shortage of highly skilled workers such as engineers, nurses, and even mechanics (who need a lot of training in computer science). That's a problem with access to education. I think there needs to be more effort going into making higher education more attainable to the poor and also increasing mentorship programs for trades. Education is the only way out of the cycle of poverty. The mentally ill are a whole other issue and that needs to be dealt with separately

[2e1m5a]

Originally Posted by Angus215

So, I guess people who want to be in the top 1% should go out and do something to make it happen, rather than waiting for someone to hand it to them, then blaming the system when it doesn't happen. It usually involves a combination of hard work, creative thinking, and risk taking. "The system" is not doing anything to keep poor people poor. On the contrary, countless opportunities are given to those who are minorities and/or want to get out of poverty, including scholarships, student loans, and preference for jobs and government contracts.

It wouldn't be much of a problem if it were 1% of people whose wealth was exploding-that's still 3.5 Million people-

But as I said, it's something like .01% of people-as in a couple hundred families.


9 Out Of 10 Americans Are Completely Wrong About This Mind-Blowing Fact - YouTube

[2e1m5a]

Originally Posted by BlakeJones

Agree that there is certainly a problem, because the investor and business class has figured out how to increase and maintain production with minimal domestic employment. They can sell the same goods & services at a higher margin and grow the business without having to hire more people. The rich get richer, the poor get nothing.

But, if you look in depth at the US job market there is actually a severe shortage of highly skilled workers such as engineers, nurses, and even mechanics (who need a lot of training in computer science). That's a problem with access to education. I think there needs to be more effort going into making higher education more attainable to the poor and also increasing mentorship programs for trades. Education is the only way out of the cycle of poverty. The mentally ill are a whole other issue and that needs to be dealt with separately

I agree with this-but the cost of education is also highly inflated right now. It should not be upwards of $250,000 to obtain a degree. Why would anyone put themselves into that much debt in such an unstable economy in which the citizens no longer have faith in?

Luckily I received financial aid/scholarships as well as some help from my parents, but those circumstances are certainly not afforded to everyone.

[Angus215]

Originally Posted by BlakeJones

Agree that there is certainly a problem, because the investor and business class has figured out how to increase and maintain production with minimal domestic employment. They can sell the same goods & services at a higher margin and grow the business without having to hire more people. The rich get richer, the poor get nothing.

But, if you look in depth at the US job market there is actually a severe shortage of highly skilled workers such as engineers, nurses, and even mechanics (who need a lot of training in computer science). That's a problem with access to education. I think there needs to be more effort going into making higher education more attainable to the poor and also increasing mentorship programs for trades. Education is the only way out of the cycle of poverty. The mentally ill are a whole other issue and that needs to be dealt with separately

It's not the responsibilty of private industry to create jobs - their purpose is to make money for their owners. It is the responsiblity of government to create an environment which is conducive to domestic job creation, however. The US has among the highest corporate taxes in the world, as well as unfriendly labor conditions (now including Obamacare).

The problem is that the US worker has priced himself out of the market, largely due to liberal idealists and labor unions. In a global economy, many jobs can easily be transferred from one country to another, depending on the relative market conditions for labor. People can complain about it all they want, but we compete with others who provide our services all over the world.

And I don't understand your point about higher education being unattainable for the poor. Anyone can go to college in this country if they are so inclined . . . government has made this such a high priority, in fact, they there are arguably TOO many people going to college . . . to the point where the supply of "middling" college graduates exceeds the demand.

[BlakeJones]

Originally Posted by Angus215

It's not the responsibilty of private industry to create jobs - their purpose is to make money for their owners. It is the responsiblity of government to create an environment which is conducive to domestic job creation, however. The US has among the highest corporate taxes in the world, as well as unfriendly labor conditions (now including Obamacare).

The problem is that the US worker has priced himself out of the market, largely due to liberal idealists and labor unions. In a global economy, many jobs can easily be transferred from one country to another, depending on the relative market conditions for labor. People can complain about it all they want, but we compete with others who provide our services all over the world.

And I don't understand your point about higher education being unattainable for the poor. Anyone can go to college in this country if they are so inclined . . . government has made this such a high priority, in fact, they there are arguably TOO many people going to college . . . to the point where the supply of "middling" college graduates exceeds the demand.

Getting a bit off-topic but Obamacare is in the best interests of business. I liken it to a necessary infrastructure service like interstate highways or household water supply. A healthy, stable population is good for the economy and everyone benefits.

It is true that it's not private industry's responsibility to create jobs, but if the system is creating such a huge imbalance of wealth distribution there is something wrong and the economic incentives need to be re-adjusted

[Fern Rock]

I would never say "nobody in my family will ever be homeless."

If someone in your family becomes mentally ill or unstable (which can happen suddenly), chances are they won't last forever in the homes of the family members. Just look at the stress on the parents in the movie "Silver Linings Playbook." The episodes exhibited by the main character in the story were somewhat benign and they created a lot of stress on the parents.

I mean, imagine those symptoms x10.

[Fern Rock]

Almost all homeless/street people are that way because of substance abuse, mental illness or a combination of the two; very few are down on their luck. The ones that are will be able to rebound.

I had a brother who was homeless. Eighty percent of the reason was from drinking. In the counties they're known as "invisible." They live in cars, in camps, and in cheap motels. He never bummed anything from anyone. I used to bring him food and money. He lived in a tent in the woods next to the highway. He had his girlfriend with him. She was a nice person but was not without her problems. I always thought that they would be better off by themselves. I really didn't want her around my house. They were terrible together.

Anyway, he got a job as a house painter and worked relentlessly for about a month and was able to move into a pretty decent apartment where they got LIHEAP, SSI, food assistance, etc.