Phoenixville, PA to Philadelphia, PA Train (Pittsburgh, Allentown: fit in, home, transfer)

[Lesleya]

Hi All,

Looking to reopen the discussion of travelling by train from Phoenixville, PA to Philadelphia, PA. I see the last post was from 2009. Obviously, things are different 7 years later. More congestion, cars and people. What is your experience with it? Is driving to the Malvern station, and getting the train there really the best way? Also, why is the Phoenixville train station not in use? With so much business coming into town, as well as residents, how do we get the ball moving? Borough Council? Amtrak? Septa? City of Philadelphia? What am I missing here? Train=Keeping up with Rate of Development. Looking for any input here! Thanks guys!

[BPP1999]

Oh boy, this topic has been discussed ad nauseam on citydata and other sites. It's a great question, though.

Phoenixville, like many towns surrounding Philadelphia, was once served by two railroads. The tracks that you are referring to are now part of Norfolk Southern's Harrisburg Line, but were once the Reading Railroad's Main Line, connecting Philadelphia with Conshohocken, Norristown, Phoenixville, Royersford, Pottstown, Reading, and the coal towns all the way up to Pottsville. I have a friend whose family used to commute from Schuylkill Haven all the way to Conshohocken via train to visit family. Imagine that!

Anyway, in the early 80's, SEPTA, who took control of the old Reading RR and Pennsylvania RR lines, made what is probably their worst ever mistake in connecting the stub ends of each system (Market East and Suburban Station) with a tunnel (fantastic!) but didn't provide a system to deal with diesel exhaust fumes (idiotic!). This meant about 150 or so miles of diesel service (to Pottsville, to Allentown, and to Newtown Bucks County, old Reading RR services that were never electrified) had to be cut. Also, then Governor Dick Thornburgh was not interested in financing the operations of these routes. (I wonder if constituents in those areas think that was a smart move, looking back 30 years later). Anyway, fast forward 10-15 years to the mid-90's and the Route 422 corridor began exploding, along with the Route 309 corridor. SEPTA tried their Schuylkill Valley Metro idea in the late 90's, which would have over-engineered the line to Reading, but this boondoggle was turned down by the FTA as too expensive, and 15 years later, there has been no real movement on this.

While I support SEPTA tremendously, they are a devious organization and only want to consider expansion if they can first electrify a line. Electrification is expensive, but SEPTA doesn't seem interested in procuring diesel-electric locomotives like NJ Transit has. SEPTA likes to purposefully sandbag difficult projects to keep them from happening. I don't think there is a rail system anywhere else in this country that has stagnated as much over 30 years as SEPTA. In their defense they have been underfunded for 30 years but that shouldn't stop them from planning for expansion and holding their hands out to the Federal government like a kid at first communion. They are just not a forward-thinking organization (much like Philadelphia and Pennsylvania government, I might add). Add to this visionless and small-minded state and local leaders, and you get nothing. No expansion, no vision, nothing. I read somewhere that part of the problem is that no powerful entity in this region has ever publicly shamed SEPTA into changing their ways. I'm not sure who could actually do that: maybe Comcast, UPenn, or Ed Rendell, perhaps. Also in fairness to SEPTA, we as constituents don't appreciate or respect SEPTA as much as we should. We take it for granted but disparage it whenever possible despite the fact that it is a tremendous and indispensable asset.

All of this being said, restoration of service to Wyomissing (outside Reading) and Quakertown are both on Montgomery County's 2040 vision report, and I believe restoration of service to West Chester is on Chester County's 2040 report. Restoration of service to Pottstown, West Chester, and Quakertown were recently on SEPTA's capital budget as "visionary" projects. The problem, though, is the lack of real political will to move these projects forward. As a region, we have allowed this kind of stuff to become an unattainable holy grail that will forever be just out of reach; something to yearn for but never actually achieve. This is kind of sad given that regions in this country with less population, prowess, statute, and wealth manage to expand their rail systems.

The chance of some of this stuff happening is definitely real and certainly more likely than it was 20 years ago but the idea of waiting until 2040 is tragic.

[BK_PHL_DEL]

Check out this old map of the Reading Railroad. Look how expansive it was!

Home Page - Reading Railroad Heritage Museum - Reading Company Technical & Historical Society

[Lesleya]

Thank you so much for this detailed explanation! It is such a shame that lack of vision leads to utter frustration and the all around breakdown of hope in something changing! 2040!!! I guess I better get started on finding the powerful entity to shame Septa rather than listen to all my friends do it! Thank you, BP1999. I really appreciate this insight.

[barrycassidy]

Recently, the Borough of Phoenixville has initiated a process to bring the train service back to Phoenixville. It is a difficult project because it is so easy and people keep wanting to pile costs on it. The tracks are there, all that is needed is the rolling stock and the ridership.

They are moving forward with the process and attempting to finance the project through the Transit Related Improvement District (TRID) process. This process has been complicated because the TRID legislation offers a $350k grant for 20 years which makes it attractive to people who want to perform studies. This effort is all about economic development and making sure the money is there for the capital costs as the operating costs. The operating is projected to earn a profit in the second year.

There is now completed a base study which will be the underlying document for the TRID study. The work will be done by "citizen planners" as the professional planners are not responsive to the issue in the numerous interactions of Phoenixville transportation studies. They are meeting this week with the final meeting of the 4 outlined meetings which will determine the future of the project.

[Patmcpsu]

The fact that West Chester doesn't have a train into Philly always bothered me. A "Route 3 Line" would make too much sense. Unfortunately, as Chester County gets more developed, construction will only get more expensive.

For a state full of railroad tracks, Pennsylvania's train network is pathetic. Allentown is out on its own island, as is Reading. I would vote for a governor who took trains seriously.

My pipe dreams:
Train service between Philadelphia and State College
Bullet-train between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh

[nimshady123]

Originally Posted by Patmcpsu

The fact that West Chester doesn't have a train into Philly always bothered me. A "Route 3 Line" would make too much sense. Unfortunately, as Chester County gets more developed, construction will only get more expensive.

For a state full of railroad tracks, Pennsylvania's train network is pathetic. Allentown is out on its own island, as is Reading. I would vote for a governor who took trains seriously.

My pipe dreams:
Train service between Philadelphia and State College
Bullet-train between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh

I agreed as well that with the amount of railroad in Pennsylvania rail service should be better. But High speed rail across PA, especially outside of the Philadelphia area is extremely difficult given the states topography. With that said Trains to West Chester, Reading, and Allentown really needs to be explored

[Pilot1]

Originally Posted by Patmcpsu

The fact that West Chester doesn't have a train into Philly always bothered me. A "Route 3 Line" would make too much sense. Unfortunately, as Chester County gets more developed, construction will only get more expensive.

For a state full of railroad tracks, Pennsylvania's train network is pathetic. Allentown is out on its own island, as is Reading. I would vote for a governor who took trains seriously.

My pipe dreams:
Train service between Philadelphia and State College
Bullet-train between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh

It's not just the politicians that aren't willing to push more trains. It is the people in those areas that suffer from NIMBY (not in my backyard) syndrome. Progressives quickly become oppositionists when train tracks, power plants, refineries, etc are tried to be built in their areas.

[Flyers Girl]

Originally Posted by Patmcpsu

The fact that West Chester doesn't have a train into Philly always bothered me. A "Route 3 Line" would make too much sense. Unfortunately, as Chester County gets more developed, construction will only get more expensive.

For a state full of railroad tracks, Pennsylvania's train network is pathetic. Allentown is out on its own island, as is Reading. I would vote for a governor who took trains seriously.

My pipe dreams:
Train service between Philadelphia and State College
Bullet-train between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh

I brought something similar up on my town's Facebook page recently. I was lamenting the disappearance of the trolleys that ran on both West Chester Pike (Route 3) and Darby Road in Havertown. I mentioned that if the trolley on Darby Road still existed, I would very likely leave my car in the driveway on weekends and walk the half-block to Darby to catch the trolley to where I wanted to go. I was rebuffed by most posters, telling me that the trolley on Route 3 was replaced with the 104 bus and that there are also bus lines that replaced the trolley on Darby Road. But not everyone (myself included) likes buses, as they are no different than cars in terms of traffic and pollution. But at the end of the day, that is why these lines will never be rebuilt.

[Patmcpsu]

Originally Posted by Flyers Girl

I brought something similar up on my town's Facebook page recently. I was lamenting the disappearance of the trolleys that ran on both West Chester Pike (Route 3) and Darby Road in Havertown. I mentioned that if the trolley on Darby Road still existed, I would very likely leave my car in the driveway on weekends and walk the half-block to Darby to catch the trolley to where I wanted to go. I was rebuffed by most posters, telling me that the trolley on Route 3 was replaced with the 104 bus and that there are also bus lines that replaced the trolley on Darby Road. But not everyone (myself included) likes buses, as they are no different than cars in terms of traffic and pollution. But at the end of the day, that is why these lines will never be rebuilt.

I agree completely; I grew up a next to a stop for the 104 bus and have taken it exactly zero times. Buses are just slow cars with less freedom.

If I'm going to subject myself to a mass-transit schedule, I want time-savings on the route itself. For example, the 104 schedule budgets 54 minutes to get from my childhood home to 69th street. Google Maps says it's a 35 minute drive.

Some people might take the bus to avoid drinking and driving, but a tipsy late-night transfer at 69th street negates that purpose (in my book).

Taking the bus is cheaper than driving/parking; I see that as the only advantage. But if I'm going into Philly, it's usually for a big night out - I'm not looking to pinch pennies. If I was a daily commuter into the city... maybe. Even then, there are still a decent number of free/cheap parking spots to be found in Philly.

The next time somebody suggests buses and trains are the same thing, ask them if they would rather take Amtrak or Greyhound if they're trying to get somewhere.