One Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, Reading, Scranton: employment, camping, to live in)

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

A note on the suburban-economy/city-economy dichotomy:

Richard (Dick) Voith (Yes, We're Acquainted), who now runs the Econsult Corporation economic consultancy, wrote a paper back in 1996 when he was an economist with the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia.

Its title: "Do Suburbs Need Cities?"

The short answer: Yes.

The longer version: Voith studied the economic output and growth of the suburbs of several large metros, some with economically strong central cities and others with economically weak or declining ones (Detroit among the latter).

He found that the suburbs of weak or declining cities had lower growth than those of strong cities.

IOW, metropolitan economies remain interconnected and the health of the central city continues to matter even in regions with economically strong suburbs (which is most of them: I'll rattle off some names here, and see if you can tell me what central city they're connected to. What do these places have in common?)

Tysons Corner
Southfield
Anaheim
Overland Park
Clayton
Arlington (two acceptable answers)
Bloomington
Bellevue

Clayton escapes me, but otherwise it's Tysons Corner, Virginia, Southfield, Michigan, Anaheim, California, Overland Park, Kansas, Arlington, Texas & Virginia, Bloomington, Illinois, and Bellevue, Washington.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Clayton escapes me, but otherwise it's Tysons Corner, Virginia, Southfield, Michigan, Anaheim, California, Overland Park, Kansas, Arlington, Texas & Virginia, Bloomington, Illinois, and Bellevue, Washington.

The Bloomington I was looking for is in Minnesota - it's home to both the Mall of America and the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport. And until they moved to the Homerdome, the Twins played in a stadium there as well.

Clayton, Mo., the St. Louis County seat, is the St. Louis suburb I mentioned.

All of these are "edge cities" - suburban job and retail centers that have become "satellite downtowns". (Although Arlington, Va., is arguably part of the "urban core," as it lies entirely within the 10-mile square that comprised the original District of Columbia; Virginia's portion of the district was returned to it in 1846.)

Their respective metropolitan areas:

Tysons Corner and Arlington, Va.: Washington(-Baltimore)
Southfield: Detroit
Anaheim: Los Angeles
Overland Park: Kansas City (core city is in Missouri)
Arlington, Tex.: Dallas-Fort Worth
Bloomington: Minneapolis-St. Paul
Bellevue: Seattle

When my brother picked me up at Sea-Tac to take me to his home in Woodinville when he lived in the Seattle area, we took I-405 up the east side of Lake Washington. For a moment, when I laid eyes on it, I thought downtown Bellevue was downtown Seattle until I realized there was no Space Needle in the picture.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

The Bloomington I was looking for is in Minnesota - it's home to both the Mall of America and the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport. And until they moved to the Homerdome, the Twins played in a stadium there as well.

Clayton, Mo., the St. Louis County seat, is the St. Louis suburb I mentioned.

All of these are "edge cities" - suburban job and retail centers that have become "satellite downtowns". (Although Arlington, Va., is arguably part of the "urban core," as it lies entirely within the 10-mile square that comprised the original District of Columbia; Virginia's portion of the district was returned to it in 1846.)

Their respective metropolitan areas:

Tysons Corner and Arlington, Va.: Washington(-Baltimore)
Southfield: Detroit
Anaheim: Los Angeles
Overland Park: Kansas City (core city is in Missouri)
Arlington, Tex.: Dallas-Fort Worth
Bloomington: Minneapolis-St. Paul
Bellevue: Seattle

When my brother picked me up at Sea-Tac to take me to his home in Woodinville when he lived in the Seattle area, we took I-405 up the east side of Lake Washington. For a moment, when I laid eyes on it, I thought downtown Bellevue was downtown Seattle until I realized there was no Space Needle in the picture.

I knew about Bellevue, Washington because an older cousin of one of my great grandfathers had moved to the area after the Civil War, where he ran a small newspaper. Otherwise, I wouldn't have had a clue.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by Duderino

Not trying to excuse our incredibly offensive and toxic political environment at all, so I completely get where you're coming from.

There's obviously a lot of misguided anger and resentment out there that's been directed at minorities, and that's completely shameful. But at the same time, we all have to start somewhere to mend fences. Such division isn't sustainable.

And for those people who refuse to even try to get along civilly with fellow human beings, they're not only worthless, they're living in the wrong country. Because they've completely forgotten how democracy works, or the founding principles of America, for that matter.

Until PA passes legislation to protect the rights of its lgbtq citizens as a starting point I'm not interested in healing any division.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Until PA passes legislation to protect the rights of its lgbtq citizens as a starting point I'm not interested in healing any division.

FYI, there are several states in Middle-America (that part of the country you often say demeaning things about) that do have these sorts of protections. Notably Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, and Wisconsin.


Just for the record.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by DavePa

But you were the one using "Pennsyltucky" . I live apparently within it. Though its original usage was merely political, for being much more Conservative rural to mountain folk. It has become more derogatory to include a truck driving and 4-wheeling rednecks-types who love their guns .... and just lower-grade Appalachia.

Some can say oh they mean nothing that severe. But as you say .... (to some) ... so then to some it certainly does infer that.

But using the term as a transplant yet...... Who says they couldn't care less for the state Philly born and is in. Certainly, the term had no good use.

I once said when young. Visiting Philly for the first time. I was surprised how the city was full of row-housing as most older small cities thru the state. Looked more like by me. Especially the hilly areas along the Schuylkill even before entering Philly. That winding expressway could be a mountain road by me too.

Just more rows being brick then Appalachia parts of PA. Actually more follow NYC wood-frame styles by me and Northern PA. vs the Southeastern older cities that are more brick as Philly in city older-stock housing.

Lots of timber in - dem thar hills ya kno ..... in Pensyltucky. If anything, the post and reference was not a reference to "One PA".

You seem to be getting a little caught up in the built environment when most people are talking about the general logic and thought process of people in different parts of the state.
For example, the more liberal socially progressive areas vs super conservative small town areas.

The same thing applies to your beloved Illinois...

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

A note on the suburban-economy/city-economy dichotomy:

Richard (Dick) Voith (Yes, We're Acquainted), who now runs the Econsult Corporation economic consultancy, wrote a paper back in 1996 when he was an economist with the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia.

Its title: "Do Suburbs Need Cities?"

The short answer: Yes.

The longer version: Voith studied the economic output and growth of the suburbs of several large metros, some with economically strong central cities and others with economically weak or declining ones (Detroit among the latter).

He found that the suburbs of weak or declining cities had lower growth than those of strong cities.

IOW, metropolitan economies remain interconnected and the health of the central city continues to matter even in regions with economically strong suburbs (which is most of them: I'll rattle off some names here, and see if you can tell me what central city they're connected to. What do these places have in common?)

Tysons Corner
Southfield
Anaheim
Overland Park
Clayton
Arlington (two acceptable answers)
Bloomington
Bellevue

Very true, but in some circumstances the city needs its suburbs, and Philadelphia is probably one of the best examples of that.
The region is very intertwined, and in Philadelphia's and Pennsylvania's case I think people seem to gloss over how important the 4 surrounding counties are to region and state.

My previous post responding to the statement about Philly's burbs collapsing without Philly is to show that they are more independent than a lot of other regions and that Philadelphia would very well collapse without its collar counties.

Also, If PA were to lose Montgomery, Chester, Delaware and Bucks Counties it would do a lot more damage than losing just Philadelphia County.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

FYI, there are several states in Middle-America (that part of the country you often say demeaning things about) that do have these sorts of protections. Notably Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, and Wisconsin.


Just for the record.

That being said, while it's absurd that PA still hasn't passed such a statewide-level LGBT housing/employment protection by 2019, it's notably because of PA's broken legislative system whereby the chairing GOP House State Government Committee member can completely squelch any sort of consideration of the issue (namely, Daryl Metcalfe). Absolutely ridiculous that someone can be given so much power. Thankfully Metcalfe has now been "re-assigned" from that role, giving it newfound hope. It's also not for a lack of overall bipartisan and popular resident support:

Is this the year Pa. gives LGBTQ+ people discrimination protection? 'A lot has changed,' one lawmaker says. | News | witf.org

Additionally, at the very least Pennsylvania has the largest number of local Fairness Act protections of any state in the US without a statewide law, so the big cities and more progressive towns in the state (covering one-third of Pennsylvanians) have helped fill a critical gap:

https://payouthcongress.org/pa-equal...discrimination

[Ohiogirl81]

While the overall premise is desirable, the responses give hints as to why the idea will sputter:

• Originally Posted by cpomp

  I couldn't really care less about the rest of state minus the major population centers

• Originally Posted by MB1562

  Lets face it, the rest of the state (minus Pittsburgh, State College, and a few others) is embarrassingly conservative and backward. There is good reason they call it Pennsyltucky.

• Originally Posted by kyb01

  I have nothing in common with anyone in Erie, Scranton, Johnstown, Altoona, etc. So why would I want to get "closer"?

• Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013

  politicians from the sticks

• Originally Posted by Patmcpsu

  average yokel in rural PA

• Originally Posted by cpomp

  Them rural PA folk

• Originally Posted by MB1562

  In all reality, Pennsylvania outside of a few places is just small town, generic America. There's nothing unique or special about it. You could replace Nowhere, PA with Nowhere, AL and you wouldn't notice much difference.

• Originally Posted by Duderino

  those sentiments in rural PA are based on jealousy, resentment of success, and believe it or not, a complete lack of self worth.

• Originally Posted by MB1562

  some country bumpkin in Redneck, PA

If people in the state's largest population center perpetuate the Us vs. Them mindset through insults and ignorance, why should people in the rest of the state want to feel any unity with the largest population center? I don't associate with people who insult me.

And yes, there are people in the rest of the state that are dismissive or insulting toward southeastern Pennsylvania, but in my experience that sentiment is not as widespread as people in southeastern Pennsylvania seem to think it is.

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

You can see this in the social media commentary of any city-related article posted by local news outlets. For every one person lauding a progressive initiative there are 10 others name-calling and hootin' and hollerin' with improper English like a bunch of buffoons.

You see that in the Philadelphia area as well. Check out the Roxborough Rants and Raves page on Facebook sometime. OMG ...

Originally Posted by Patmcpsu

Part of being the "Keystone State" means that you have lots of cultural border-bleed. Pittsburgh is kind of Ohio/WV, the Susquehanna Valley has its own identity (thanks a lot to Amish quirkiness) but might as well be Maryland, Lehigh Valley is practically a colony of New Jersey, and I haven't been to Erie, but I imagine it's indistinguishable from western New York State.

Philadelphia-proper has 1.5 million people, and the overall metro area is 4x that, so it is arguably the one part of the state with a unique identity.

I think you need to get out more.

Originally Posted by cpomp

Them rural PA folk will sure be shocked when they see two men holding hands in Philadelphia, lol.

You must be incredibly sheltered to not know that there are LGBT people throughout Pennsylvania.

Originally Posted by cpomp

My only comment is that the Chicago area views the rest of Illinois the same was as the Philadelphia area views the rest of PA, so don't try to call out the Philadelphia area for being snobby or dismissive.

Everyone else does it, so it's OK? I learned the idiocy of that argument in kindergarten

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Midwestern county seats don't resemble Pennsylvania county seats either, beyond maybe the age of the buildings surrounding the courthouse, and neither resemble small towns in New England.

Not related to the rest of the thread, but an example I can give you is the small towns of northeastern Ohio, which was once part of the Connecticut Western Reserve, many of which - Painesville, Hudson, Chardon, Stow, Chagrin Falls, Medina - are very New England-y.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

FYI, there are several states in Middle-America (that part of the country you often say demeaning things about) that do have these sorts of protections. Notably Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, and Wisconsin.


Just for the record.

I'm not the "you" you mean. My best friend lives in the pan handle section of Nebraska and I don't recall any regular posters on this board saying demeaning things about the midwest or plains states.

But, yes, I'm aware of what states have those protections for their lgbtq citizens.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by kyb01

I'm not the "you" you mean. My best friend lives in the pan handle section of Nebraska and I don't recall any regular posters on this board saying demeaning things about the midwest or plains states.

But, yes, I'm aware of what states have those protections for their lgbtq citizens.

Yes, I was referring to you. Although I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't realize that you're doing it. I've heard about your friend in Nebraska.


I used to live in small town Pennsylvania and got plenty tired of the small-mindedness and self-righteousness that exists. It's part of why I left. But I also found out pretty quickly that these same traits exist in the big cities.



Ohiogirl above did a pretty good roundup of some quotes by people here in this thread. It's a somewhat common theme on any thread that gets political though.