Terminal Square, Upper Darby Township...

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by JacksonPanther

When was 69th Street shopping ever upscale? I was there as a little kid in the 70s and a teen in the 80s, to be honest it doesn't look any worse now than it did then. In fact, the 70s were rock bottom for Philly area, and 69th Street improved from those bad times.

Are you going further back, to the 50s and 60s?

Yes, you have to go back a long time ago.

I already posted that 50+ years ago there were 3 department stores on 69th St: Lit's, Gimbels, and JC Pennys. Three movie theaters( the Tower was a movie theater back then). There was a large Woolworth's and Kresge's. Plus there was bustle/energy that barely exists now. It was upscale enough back then that it supported a formal wear rental place directly across Market St from the Terminal.

I also mentioned that the malls(e.g. Springfield), imo, helped wreck all kinds of street oriented retail in DelCo. including 69th St.

[Flyers Girl]

Yes, but I don't like or use buses for one simple reason: my reason for taking transit is to avoid the traffic that comes with driving. A bus has to sit in the same traffic that I'd have to sit in if I was driving. No benefit, IMO.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Flyers Girl

Yes, but I don't like or use buses for one simple reason: my reason for taking transit is to avoid the traffic that comes with driving. A bus has to sit in the same traffic that I'd have to sit in if I was driving. No benefit, IMO.

Having done just that on the 104 coming in from Newtown Square at evening rush hour one day last summer, I can relate.

But the buses remain the workhorses of the system. And there are some very good routes. The 18, which I often take between my home and the subway, is one. The 26 would be if it had better off-peak and weekend service.

[ActualUDResident]

I apologize for bumping yet another old thread but I have seen this misinformation and incorrect history posted literally everywhere from major publications to HiddenCity.

The area you are referring to did not become a market because of the El. It was built up because of the El and surrounded with streetcar suburbia but the surrounding area was built around some of the first mills in the country. Furthermore, that intersection was a major center of that general area ever since stalls were setup for goods to be exchanged back in the 19th Century. That is how that area came to be. It wasn't some streetcar suburbia master plan. That all was built around the existing small industrial areas and much larger surrounding basically rural lands. If you are to really understand that area, then you must understand that difference. Those industrial areas are why that area isn't what so many of you seem to want it to become.

The streetcar suburbs you all want to talk about were built largely to the north and west of downtown. Some of the oldest houses in the area are right near Cobb's Creek near where Tina Fey grew up. There's also an industrial area that was built closer to the time of the El just outside the downtown that is largely centered around both the former mill area in Cardington and the freight line that used to run from Fernhill to Newtown Square through what are currently the bad parts of Upper Darby, East Lansdowne, etc. The difference between the origins of the different parts of that area should be very obvious by walking it. The streetcar suburban sections have large apartment complexes, some beautiful old housing stock from the period, and garden apartments hidden in some lesser known streets that you'd more expect to see in like Old Hollywood or something rather than Upper Darby.

What Kyb doesn't want to tell you or doesn't know is that the bad parts of the township either directly border West Philly or border the bad parts of Yeadon, etc. I have seen her mention where she lived before, and neither place is anywhere near Lansdowne. She lived I believe first near the Barclay Square Apartments and then near Sellers Library. Well Barclay Square borders the bad parts of Upper Darby and is very close to the bad parts those sections border, and Sellers is really not very far from Philly at all. She bought in the wrong areas at the wrong times and continues to cluelessly bash the whole area because of it.

Anyway, that is why things are how they are. You'd have to redevelop large formerly industrial parcels in order to provide an adequate buffer and stabilize that general area.

Really the biggest impediment to revitalizing that area is Long Lane. That's the street most apartment complexes are located on or near, and it borders some genuinely bad areas. The only comparison I can think of is Ridge Ave. The part that's part of the downtown area has businesses and is slowly being revitalized but it gets worse the further south you go.

I'd love to see that all change without pricing out the immigrants who have stabilized the area or forcing them to close their businesses. I'd especially love to see the area around the terminal as well as the entire 69th St commerical corridor built up and built taller at certain points. My dream is for the former 69th St Title and Trust building to be converted to residential on the top floors. Imagine the views!

I'd also love to see them build big on the former Sears property. My vision has always been working out in a fitness center high up enough on that property to get views of Center City. You could see over nearly any development built lower on the hill because of its position. The infrastructure is in place to build midrises all along the street near the terminal while still preserving the architectural gems in between. That's really the only gentrification or major change I can see happening in that area. The neighborhoods around it would be a long and arduous process that likely would price out the very people who stabilized them.

[ActualUDResident]

Oh, and be sure to come out to the Upper Darby International Festival this Saturday!