Is Point Breeze becoming desirable? (Washington, Clark: real estate, renting, crime)

[cherperp]

People have suggested it a lot lately on this form and websites like Niche. Has it changed? Last I heard it was one of the more dangerous areas of Philly and only real 'hood' in South Philly. Definitely not a place I'd wanna move to. Is it the next Northern Liberties? Grad Hospital pushing down past Washington? Am I missing something?

[cpomp]

Other posters will provide more detail, but Point Breeze is the textbook definition of up and coming, but it still has a long way to go (in my opinion).

The biggest change is infill construction, which is slowing increasing the desirability of the area. However, its still rough with limited amenities, no large projects to anchor its revitalization, and the main thoroughfare Point Breeze Ave doesn't have much.

Northern Liberties is a different story because its architectural characteristics were different allowing large projects to anchor the boom, and there are still several massive buildings under construction in NoLibs.

Point Breeze needs the major of NoLibs and Fishtown if it wants to realize its full potential, but I don't see that happening. The Washington Ave corridor on the Northern end does have potential and there are some really nice looking projects planned around 24th/Wash.

In summary I would rank it a 5/10 in desirability, approaching a 6.

[Fireshaker]

Point Breeze resident here. The answer is "yes"....sort of.

There's a ton of construction, a ton of rehabs, a ton of new energy and residential investment. That's good.

But, a lot of the area is still very rundown and desolate. And commercial development hasnt followed residential at all. Aside from a few places here and there, not much is going on. And the major business strip, Point Breeze Ave., is a total non-factor. That's bad.

Right now, for me, living in PB is really only worth it if you're in the eastern sections (what some call Newbold) because it's not only a bit more developed, but you're also close to Passyunk Square, you're close to the BSL, you're closer to new developments at Broad & Washington. But if you go west past, say, 17th / 18th street, you get the worst of both worlds---blocks that aren't as far along and aren't really near anything.

If you're looking to buy, sure, it probably may be worth it as a longer-term investment. But if you're planning on renting or only being here short-term, I would recommend staying as close to Broad as possible. Otherwise, it's not the most livable of neighborhoods.

[DXBtoFL]

Point Breeze is the cheapest neighborhood that is still within walking distance of Center City. You can walk from upper Point Breeze to Market in a half hour (and cycle even less). And it's a short walk to Passyunk. The other comparison, Brewerytown, is a bit more removed from Center City.

It's fair to call PB up and coming but it is still decidedly an urban neighborhood with all the trials of an urban neighborhood. Insane amount of trash, highly variable neighbors, some gentrification resentment, you will hear gunshots periodically. The one hesitation I have with buying in Point Breeze is that in any real estate downturn, Point Breeze will be the first to lose value because it's still not quite stable (unlike Grad Hospital or Passyunk). Today's long term investment could be tomorrow's major loss. That's the gamble you take.

[ilovephilly79]

Fireshaker is 100% correct. But let's not forget the other factors. Crime is not great and there are a litany of nuisances such as people hanging on a porch all night making noise, higher property crimes (don't leave a bike outside), tons of litter, some very unfriendly people. I have two close friends who live there. One is on 16th street, and he paid a lot for his house and spends almost all of his time outside in Passyunk Square. He would have been better paying a bit more and living in PS. The other lives on 18th and Morris. He's looking to move because he has neighbors that sit outside drinking/doing drugs on weeknights until 3am. He has had people sleeping on his steps (drunk/drugs) when he came out to go to work. And he has a kid. What do you think it's like having a kid and going out for a family walk with abundant litter everywhere and a questionable level of safety at say 7pm at night (dark this time of year)?

The truth is that Point Breeze is much more like Brewerytown than it will ever be like Northern Liberties. Maybe both will evolve over time, but long-term residential adversity to development and serious crime issues have slowed development to a crawl, especially commercial.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by ilovephilly79

Fireshaker is 100% correct. But let's not forget the other factors. Crime is not great and there are a litany of nuisances such as people hanging on a porch all night making noise, higher property crimes (don't leave a bike outside), tons of litter, some very unfriendly people. I have two close friends who live there. One is on 16th street, and he paid a lot for his house and spends almost all of his time outside in Passyunk Square. He would have been better paying a bit more and living in PS. The other lives on 18th and Morris. He's looking to move because he has neighbors that sit outside drinking/doing drugs on weeknights until 3am. He has had people sleeping on his steps (drunk/drugs) when he came out to go to work. And he has a kid. What do you think it's like having a kid and going out for a family walk with abundant litter everywhere and a questionable level of safety at say 7pm at night (dark this time of year)?

The truth is that Point Breeze is much more like Brewerytown than it will ever be like Northern Liberties. Maybe both will evolve over time, but long-term residential adversity to development and serious crime issues have slowed development to a crawl, especially commercial.

I agree, but Brewertown appears to have more going on at the moment than Point Breeze, there are a lot of larger projects in the works, whereas Point Breeze is mostly infill, rehabs, one at a time type of things with a few rows of new homes here and there. Both have a ways to go, but I see Brewerytown moving forward at a quicker pace for the reasons I mentioned now and before.

Of course I hope both continue to improve, but Point Breeze needs a few large mixed use projects as a base. Something the building at Broad & Washington, hopefully nicer looking though.

[ilovephilly79]

Originally Posted by cpomp

I agree, but Brewertown appears to have more going on at the moment than Point Breeze, there are a lot of larger projects in the works, whereas Point Breeze is mostly infill, rehabs, one at a time type of things with a few rows of new homes here and there. Both have a ways to go, but I see Brewerytown moving forward at a quicker pace for the reasons I mentioned now and before.

Of course I hope both continue to improve, but Point Breeze needs a few large mixed use projects as a base. Something the building at Broad & Washington, hopefully nicer looking though.

I don't understand the appeal of Brewerytown. Sure, you have accessibility to the park, but it's a long commute to Center City and there are only bus options. You also have some of the same anti-development sentiment among many of the residents and you now have Clarke buying up properties and trying to handicap investment so it doesn't make it to Strawberry Mansion.

[DocAwesome]

It's biggest strength is proximity to center city per dollar.

A few great gems in there as well. Like said above, if you are close to the BSL your transit is excellent, though the busses further in are frequent as well.

Negatives would be some absolute schlock being built up in the area, so be careful to not buy something that will fall down a day after the warranty expires, and that city amenities such as trash cleanup and road maintenance is done in a haphazard fashion - I believe moreso than many other areas.