Thinking of moving back to Philly and buying property (Riverwards, Northeast)

[JamesJay64]

Originally Posted by Dana Lynn

I think you'd be making a huge mistake to buy in Philly, even if it's in a stable area of the city. It seems to me that Philly has reached the tipping point and I don't see any reason to believe the trajectory is going to change. I think it will eventually bottom out. If so, it may remain in that state for decades.

What trajectory are you talking about? Philly gained nearly 1% population between April '21 and April '22, while cities such as Chicago, San Francisco, Brooklyn, etc. haven't posted any gains since COVID started. Poverty is continuing to decline, retail vacancies are down, foot traffic is at pre-pandemic levels, etc. I'd love to hear what indicators of Philly "bottoming out" you're seeing, besides crime stats (which alone don't indicate that IMO).

Originally Posted by Dana Lynn

One mind-boggling statistic that I can hardly even believe myself is that Center City alone had the same number of homicides last year (or maybe one more - I forget) as all of Camden City.!

Center City alone has like 3x the population of Camden. And where are you getting this data? According to the Office of the Controller's map (https://controller.phila.gov/philade...56%2F-75.16071) - there were 3 homicides in CC last year by gun. I highly doubt there were 19 committed by other means.

[FKD19124]

Flipping and renting out section 8?

[Bacon21]

Originally Posted by Dana Lynn

Bacon21, I think you're considering a lot of the right factors but I don't think you've thought things through enough yet. Just my opinion, but I think you'd be making a huge mistake to buy in Philly, even if it's in a stable area of the city. It seems to me that Philly has reached the tipping point and I don't see any reason to believe the trajectory is going to change. I think it will eventually bottom out. If so, it may remain in that state for decades. Do you really want to risk that? That could set you back financially for a very long time.



I bought in Camden in 2005 and haven't had any regrets. My neighborhood (I'm in North Camden very close to Rutgers) did get worse for the first few years I lived here, but since they doubled the police force through the union busting effort of going from a city to a county force in 2012, it's been steadily uphill. One mind-boggling statistic that I can hardly even believe myself is that Center City alone had the same number of homicides last year (or maybe one more - I forget) as all of Camden City. So I think it's beyond speculation at this point that Camden has turned the corner and is on the upswing.


Just something to consider, especially since it seems that Camden would be a very convenient location for you and it could be a very wise investment.



Good luck!

The problem with Camden (there are many) is that it's in New Jersey and I refuse to live in NJ because this is not the forum for me to ***** and moan about Trenton and the people who work there. I'm very familiar with Camden. I'm aware of the fact that they still sell heroin in North Camden, albeit it's not as free for all as it was 10 years ago. The area off MLK to 676, the immediate area around the Hospital and the College, and pockets of North Camden near the waterfront, South of State Street. The rest of it is still The State of New Jersey's dumping ground for the mentally ill, parolees, drug addicted, etc etc. I'm not saying Camden is a lost cause, there is clearly development and a lot of good things happening there, but IMO most of it is related to the expansion of Cooper and Rutgers, and not much else. South Camden is still an absolute hell scape, most of North Camden hasn't actually improved aside from the area near the School. It's quieter and the crime is more low key because of the increased police presence, but it's still just as much there as it's ever been. East Camden is hit or miss, It's better than South Camden, more geographically and economically tied to the surrounding suburbs of SJ, and I think development there is much more comparable to what you see in Olney/Oxford Circle. There is no reason for a bunch of outside money to come here.

To say Center City is some kind of mecca of Murder and crime and is more dangerous than Camden is, IMO, hogwash. Even I know that. As for the rest, Property values keep steadily rising. Even the badlands between Kensington and Frankford Ave, the properties are going up in value. It's half tempting to snag a deal in Harrowgate near the Tioga Station, East of the El, because you can get very cheap property there. Some of the blocks there look rather well kept. Being in close proximity to the El which can take me directly to 30th Street Station and the PATCO is rather inviting. That being said, I'm not being delusional about how rough that area is. I know it's bad. But once you get past the 7-11 on Kensington Ave it DOES seem to clear up substantially. Not totally, but it's a lot better than K&A and K&S. Plus it seems to have a very active Civic Association. It seems the biggest complaints are the conditions for ridership on the El and the Stations north of Huntingdon. I would hope that one of these days a more concentrated effort to clean up the El would...happen. It's SEPTA's private property and I feel like a stronger effort to clear train cars of hoards of junkies needs to be a primary focus.

[RIPMayfairRIP]

Stay out of Mayfair. I just sold my house there after 5 years of hell. I bought my house in 2003. It was a beautiful neighborhood, nice neighbors, everything was quiet. Fast forward to 2018, my neighbors house was foreclosed. An Asian realtor bought it and rented it out to a Latino family of 13 people. I never had so much as an ant in my house prior to them arriving. When I sold it in the beginning of the year it was overrun with roaches. I'm only speaking about the people with whom I've had an experience. They were loud, blasted music until after 12:30 on a week night when I have to get up for work the next day at 5:30. They never cut their lawn. It was filled with mice so much so that cats would hang around our steps to wait for them to come out. It was the worst experience of my life. Not a one spoke English, so asking them to clean up or keep the noise down wasn't helping. When I sold my house, the Asian guy who bought it said that he was buying it for his parents to move into. 5 months later there is a family of about 10 Latinos living in the house. I am not a racist. I teach at an inner city school for 20 years. I am speaking about the people that I have and the unfortunate opportunity to get to know. I weep for a once great neighborhood which is quickly crumbling before our eyes.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Dana Lynn

I bought in Camden in 2005 and haven't had any regrets. My neighborhood (I'm in North Camden very close to Rutgers) did get worse for the first few years I lived here, but since they doubled the police force through the union busting effort of going from a city to a county force in 2012, it's been steadily uphill. One mind-boggling statistic that I can hardly even believe myself is that Center City alone had the same number of homicides last year (or maybe one more - I forget) as all of Camden City. So I think it's beyond speculation at this point that Camden has turned the corner and is on the upswing.

Hmmm. I was about to object to your referring to this as "union busting," but:

I had heard that the City of Camden dissolved its police force because it couldn't afford the cost of running it.

Then the county government offered the Camden City FOP the option of becoming the new force. It declined the offer, and the county hired a new force represented by the New Jersey State FOP.

The hole in the story that needs filling for me is: What were the contract terms offered by the county? Camden County might have been able to afford what Camden City couldn't, but if it too wanted to save money on running the Camden Police, then I could see why the city FOP would object, and that would qualify as union busting.

However: I wish someone would replace the Philadephia FOP lodge and especially the guy running it.

Edited to add a footnote: And if the Camden City FOP brass and the rank and file had the same us-vs.-them attitude towards crime-fighting that the retired cops who keep McNesby in office have, then it's a good thing that union got busted, for if you like living in Camden now, that drop in crime that makes Cooper's Ferry livable is due to the new attitudes the Camden County PD chief instilled in the new force. They're guardians, not warriors.

[JulieThruTheGlass]

Originally Posted by RIPMayfairRIP

Stay out of Mayfair. I just sold my house there after 5 years of hell. I bought my house in 2003. It was a beautiful neighborhood, nice neighbors, everything was quiet. Fast forward to 2018, my neighbors house was foreclosed. An Asian realtor bought it and rented it out to a Latino family of 13 people. I never had so much as an ant in my house prior to them arriving. When I sold it in the beginning of the year it was overrun with roaches. I'm only speaking about the people with whom I've had an experience. They were loud, blasted music until after 12:30 on a week night when I have to get up for work the next day at 5:30. They never cut their lawn. It was filled with mice so much so that cats would hang around our steps to wait for them to come out. It was the worst experience of my life. Not a one spoke English, so asking them to clean up or keep the noise down wasn't helping. When I sold my house, the Asian guy who bought it said that he was buying it for his parents to move into. 5 months later there is a family of about 10 Latinos living in the house. I am not a racist. I teach at an inner city school for 20 years. I am speaking about the people that I have and the unfortunate opportunity to get to know. I weep for a once great neighborhood which is quickly crumbling before our eyes.

I am so glad you got away. This sounds like a nightmare. I can imagine the helplessness, frustration, and anger you must have felt while all of this transpired. Thankfully, you were able to sell and get out of there. I agree, by the way, that it's heartbreaking to see and, in your case, experience first hand, the deterioration of a once respectable neighborhood.

[RIPMayfairRIP]

Originally Posted by JulieThruTheGlass

I am so glad you got away. This sounds like a nightmare. I can imagine the helplessness, frustration, and anger you must have felt while all of this transpired. Thankfully, you were able to sell and get out of there. I agree, by the way, that it's heartbreaking to see and, in your case, experience first hand, the deterioration of a once respectable neighborhood.

Thank You!