Where do you see Point Breeze in 3-5 years? (Philadelphia: real estate market, apartments)

[JamesJay64]

Looks like I'm staying in Philly long-term, and I'm considering a house around 23rd and Oakford. It seems like an area with a bright future considering all the development around 21st and Washington, but on the other hand gun violence is up a bit and Kenyatta Johnson was acquitted of fraud and corruption charges... so he's here to stay and will limit all development and new businesses he can to keep his voter base.

All thoughts about this area are welcome, and appreciated.

Thanks!

[thedirtypirate]

I really like Dock Street, American Sardine Bar, and the Pharmacy. So there are amenities in the immediate few blocks around the block. Oakford is pretty far north and 25th and Oakford just saw the development of a large apartment building: Renovation Planned For Pre-War Loft at 2501 Oakford Street in Grays Ferry, South Philadelphia

so there is definitely positive changes happening. If it was further south on 23th, I would lean no, but I think it's alright. I never lived over there to see what it was really like though.

[JamesJay64]

Originally Posted by thedirtypirate

I really like Dock Street, American Sardine Bar, and the Pharmacy. So there are amenities in the immediate few blocks around the block. Oakford is pretty far north and 25th and Oakford just saw the development of a large apartment building: Renovation Planned For Pre-War Loft at 2501 Oakford Street in Grays Ferry, South Philadelphia

so there is definitely positive changes happening. If it was further south on 23th, I would lean no, but I think it's alright. I never lived over there to see what it was really like though.

Thanks! This house is actually closer to 24th I guess, between Federal and Oakford - still really close to Dock Street though I've never been. Also the apartments you mentioned look pretty awesome: https://www.herringbonelofts.com/.

Supposedly they will put an Aldi at 21st and Washington too, though driving by it looks like there's still awhile to go.

[Tweb66]

Not sure if its Point Breeze but I was browsing listings and saw the below. All I can say is... "cabinets"...wow


https://www.redfin.com/PA/Philadelph.../home/39265396


My snark aside, you overall you could do a lot worse. Its just paint.

[Muinteoir]

I don't know if it will feel this way by five years from now, but it's hard for me to imagine it won't feel "fully gentrified" within ten years. It will depend upon what kind of leadership we get for the next decade, but Point Breeze is one of the last opportunities for those who want to invest in an area very convenient to Center City.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Tweb66

Not sure if its Point Breeze but I was browsing listings and saw the below. All I can say is... "cabinets"...wow


https://www.redfin.com/PA/Philadelph.../home/39265396


My snark aside, you overall you could do a lot worse. Its just paint.

Blue's my favorite color, but I don't love it that much.

That house lies just outside Point Breeze, however; it's south of Snyder Avenue. I think that puts it in Girard Estate but am not sure there.

25th Street, btw, is Point Breeze's western border, and there's a pretty solid demarcator in the form of the railroad viaduct. West of there, you're in Grays Ferry. But 2501 Oakford would be right on the border.

AFA Kenyatta Johnson is concerned, it seemed to me that it was more that he had it in for Ori Feibush than that he was opposed to all new development. He had nothing but nice things to say about his neighbor Sean Schellenger, who founded and owned Streamline Development, after he got murdered in that infamous incident with the bike courier just off Rittenhouse Square.

[jillym]

That murder! I had not heard about it.

I'm new-ish to Point Breeze, on Taylor Street (I have a freight train art exhibit out my back window). I bought my house this spring and absolutely love it. I too am curious about the future of my neighborhood. I aim to be part of the rebirth of Point Breeze Avenue. It pains me that we have so much potential and so very few amenities in reasonable walking distance. With all due respect to 24&Moore and A-Rod.

[Pennsport]

Originally Posted by Muinteoir

I don't know if it will feel this way by five years from now, but it's hard for me to imagine it won't feel "fully gentrified" within ten years. It will depend upon what kind of leadership we get for the next decade, but Point Breeze is one of the last opportunities for those who want to invest in an area very convenient to Center City.

Agree that Point Breeze will ultimately be fully gentrified, but I'm not a fan of the area personally. It's still quite rough and has the most active and loudest anti-gentrification community group in the city. This has kept progress/safety at a slow crawl and will continue to do so for quite some time. My ex lives up there on one of the more northern streets (objectively and arguable the safest area in the neighborhood) and she still to this day has active drug houses within a block of her house - one is on her street. With booming drug operations and trap houses comes shootings and the such.

She got in before the prices escalated and got a great deal on a new build, but those days are long gone. PB jumped the shark pricewise years ago (prematurely so in my opinion) and really isn't the best investment now. I would advise the OP to keep looking around all CC-surrounding neighborhoods, wait for the economy to downturn (sadly, it almost certainly will), and see what you can get in like 10-18 months. Be prepared to move fast when the foreclosures and price drops start happening, so start saving your down payment now...

Edit to add (specific for JillyM and other PB homeowners): My comments aren't intended to sound "down" on PB. I don't think you can go wrong buying in PB, or, really, any of our CC-adjacent neighborhoods).

[Muinteoir]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

Agree that Point Breeze will ultimately be fully gentrified, but I'm not a fan of the area personally. It's still quite rough and has the most active and loudest anti-gentrification community group in the city. This has kept progress/safety at a slow crawl and will continue to do so for quite some time. My ex lives up there on one of the more northern streets (objectively and arguable the safest area in the neighborhood) and she still to this day has active drug houses within a block of her house - one is on her street. With booming drug operations and trap houses comes shootings and the such.

She got in before the prices escalated and got a great deal on a new build, but those days are long gone. PB jumped the shark pricewise years ago (prematurely so in my opinion) and really isn't the best investment now. I would advise the OP to keep looking around all CC-surrounding neighborhoods, wait for the economy to downturn (sadly, it almost certainly will), and see what you can get in like 10-18 months. Be prepared to move fast when the foreclosures and price drops start happening, so start saving your down payment now...

Edit to add (specific for JillyM and other PB homeowners): My comments aren't intended to sound "down" on PB. I don't think you can go wrong buying in PB, or, really, any of our CC-adjacent neighborhoods).

I like some of the bars there and the access to Center City, but yeah, much of it is definitely less appealing than other areas in South Philly. The part that gets me is the lack of greenery, combined with the trash problem and some unkept homes makes the general vibe kinda depressing. It's not quite as bad as Grays Ferry, though. My partner and I looked at a place with quite the view of Grays Ferry Ave + the energy plants, and it was a hard nope. Lol.

This is not to sh*t on South Philly in general, but that part (esp. Western PB) is not my favorite. I think buying something closer to the "Newbold" section would be a great investment. I too personally would wait for mortgage rates to drop. I don't think there is going to be an all out real estate fallout like in 2008, but once there is an economic downturn, prices may drop (or at least stabilize), the fed will certainly pivot, and rates will drop back down again.

The biggest questions for the Philly real estate market right now are: 1) how will the new lowered state corporate tax rate effect our city's appeal for businesses looking to move (it can only get better with this change, and therefore real estate prices could continue to accelerate) and 2) what kind of mayor will we elect, and how will their leadership effect our economy, and therefore real estate prices.

[Von7philly]

Originally Posted by Pennsport

Agree that Point Breeze will ultimately be fully gentrified, but I'm not a fan of the area personally. It's still quite rough and has the most active and loudest anti-gentrification community group in the city. This has kept progress/safety at a slow crawl and will continue to do so for quite some time. My ex lives up there on one of the more northern streets (objectively and arguable the safest area in the neighborhood) and she still to this day has active drug houses within a block of her house - one is on her street. With booming drug operations and trap houses comes shootings and the such.

She got in before the prices escalated and got a great deal on a new build, but those days are long gone. PB jumped the shark pricewise years ago (prematurely so in my opinion) and really isn't the best investment now. I would advise the OP to keep looking around all CC-surrounding neighborhoods, wait for the economy to downturn (sadly, it almost certainly will), and see what you can get in like 10-18 months. Be prepared to move fast when the foreclosures and price drops start happening, so start saving your down payment now...

Edit to add (specific for JillyM and other PB homeowners): My comments aren't intended to sound "down" on PB. I don't think you can go wrong buying in PB, or, really, any of our CC-adjacent neighborhoods).

What CC-surrounding neighborhoods would you suggest for someone instead of PB?