What are the most significant changes to Philly over the past 30 years? (Oxford: apartment, crime)

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by Hermit12

"That being said, what do you see as the most significant changes the Philadelphia area has undergone in the last 30 years?"

This was the question asked by the OP. I replied 'Kensington,' quality of life issues and criminal activities. I live here, it's the most significant change I have seen in the last thirty years.

How is this 'trolling,' moderator? You don't live here. Are we supposed to pretend these things don't exist?

I thought you lived in New Jersey. LOL

[MarketStEl]

selhars: Who's talking about increased poverty?

Yes, my fellow scribblers and chatterers go on about how this is "the poorest big city in America" (an inaccurate term unless you consider a "big city" only one with more than 1 million residents — there are only 10 of those in the US, and Philly has the highest poverty rate of those 10. But to give you one example of a poorer big city, in Detroit, the poverty rate is 1 in 3 [33%]).

But Philadelphia's poverty rate has been on a slow, gradual decline over the past few years. In 2017, it was close to 26 percent; now, it's 23. But that's still the highest rate among all 1m+ cities and double the national average.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by selhars

The first thing I thought of was the crime. But after giving it more thought, I don't know what I'd say it THE most significant change.

Is it improved race relations? I go back to the Frank Rizzo days when minorities if they were smart wouldn't set for in Fishtown, Port Richmond, Mayfair and other areas, too. I remember minorities' houses being fired bombed.

Is it a better city image that can promote a better economy? The start-up incubator image, the world class medical treatment (which I thought we always had).

Is it -- from what we're told -- increased poverty? I don't know.

All I know is I don't feel safe in the city. Whatever safe means. I do know my head is on swivel with my situational awareness always up the very few times I'm out in the city. I do live here but do everything in the suburbs.

How is it possible that I can spend all day in Bryn Mawr or Wayne -- or even Kennet Square or Glen Mills -- heck even Folsom or Springfield of Broomall -- and not hear a single thump-thump thump blasting from a car window, no loud phone conversations, no MF this and MF that?

Compare that peaceful day out to one in the city where I have to worry about getting shot, or seeing a smash and grab, or a teen mob, or a fight over a parking space. And obviously there teens and parking spaces and stores in all the other places I mentioned.

So yeah, when I think of the most significant change in 30 years I do tend to think it was a negative.

But didn't these problems exist 30 years ago?

30 years is too far back for me (I'm in my 30s), but I can't imagine the city (at least Center City) is worse today than in the early 90s.

My dad worked in Center City from 1983 until retirement in 2019, and when he retired, he said Center City was the best that he remembered. Things have unfortunately gone backwards since 2019, but early 90s seems like a whole different situation.

*And to MarketStEl's point, the poverty rate in 1990 was ~20%, it's currently ~22.8%, down from a high of 28% in 2011.

[NewtownBucks]

Originally Posted by selhars

The most significant change is subjective.

A person is only answering from their own POV -- which we all are allowed to have, are we not?

A person could have the first thing come to mind as a positive significant change.
Another person could have the first thing come to mind as being negative.
The person might also -- after bit more, deeper reflection and thought -- change their answer. Again, we are all allowed to do that.

If the question didn't specify positive answers only (which IMO would lead to questioning a possible agenda) then we all free to answer how we see fit.

The first thing I thought of was the crime. But after giving it more thought, I don't know what I'd say it THE most significant change.

Is it improved race relations? I go back to the Frank Rizzo days when minorities if they were smart wouldn't set for in Fishtown, Port Richmond, Mayfair and other areas, too. I remember minorities' houses being fired bombed.

Is it a better city image that can promote a better economy? The start-up incubator image, the world class medical treatment (which I thought we always had).

Is it -- from what we're told -- increased poverty? I don't know.

All I know is I don't feel safe in the city. Whatever safe means. I do know my head is on swivel with my situational awareness always up the very few times I'm out in the city. I do live here but do everything in the suburbs.

How is it possible that I can spend all day in Bryn Mawr or Wayne -- or even Kennet Square or Glen Mills -- heck even Folsom or Springfield of Broomall -- and not hear a single thump-thump thump blasting from a car window, no loud phone conversations, no MF this and MF that?

Compare that peaceful day out to one in the city where I have to worry about getting shot, or seeing a smash and grab, or a teen mob, or a fight over a parking space. And obviously there teens and parking spaces and stores in all the other places I mentioned.

So yeah, when I think of the most significant change in 30 years I do tend to think it was a negative.

Violent crime is down significantly this year from the last three.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/philadel...des-robberies/

Violent crime had been consistently falling in the years before the pandemic.

https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/u...%20from%202015.

Obviously, there was a spike from 2020-22, but that seems to be pandemic related as it is abating this year, and before the pandemic, violent crime was decreasing. If anything, if crime in the city is the biggest change over 30 years, it's a positive. In general, the US was in a far worse place in terms of violent crime in the 70s and 80s than it is now, and Philadelphia is no different.

[AshbyQuin]

I don't understand why people compare 30k-pop. suburban towns with MHI's over 70k to Philadelphia and use it as a 'gothcha'. Like, duh, of course, those places are safer and better run than a city of 1.5 million people with a 20% poverty rate.

Common sense isn't as common anymore.

[Hermit12]

Originally Posted by cpomp

But didn't these problems exist 30 years ago?

30 years is too far back for me (I'm in my 30s), but I can't imagine the city (at least Center City) is worse today than in the early 90s.

My dad worked in Center City from 1983 until retirement in 2019, and when he retired, he said Center City was the best that he remembered. Things have unfortunately gone backwards since 2019, but early 90s seems like a whole different situation.

*And to MarketStEl's point, the poverty rate in 1990 was ~20%, it's currently ~22.8%, down from a high of 28% in 2011.

I know this may be difficult for some to understand, but there's more to the city than Center City.

There are a lot of neighborhoods that are worse now than in the early '90s. Yes, some have improved, but a greater number have declined.

[Hermit12]

Originally Posted by NewtownBucks

Violent crime is down significantly this year from the last three.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/philadel...des-robberies/

Violent crime had been consistently falling in the years before the pandemic.

https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/u...%20from%202015.

Obviously, there was a spike from 2020-22, but that seems to be pandemic related as it is abating this year, and before the pandemic, violent crime was decreasing. If anything, if crime in the city is the biggest change over 30 years, it's a positive. In general, the US was in a far worse place in terms of violent crime in the 70s and 80s than it is now, and Philadelphia is no different.

Any stats on quality of life?

From my vantage point (and selhars if I may), it's gotten and is getting worse.

[AshbyQuin]

Originally Posted by Hermit12

I know this may be difficult for some to understand, but there's more to the city than Center City.

There are a lot of neighborhoods that are worse now than in the early '90s. Yes, some have improved, but a greater number have declined.

Kensington experienced the largest decline, followed by the lower Northeast. West Oak Lane, Logan and Chinatown lesser extent.

The Riverwards, excluding Kensington and University City have undergone significant improvements.

Brewerytown, Temple Area, Point Breeze, and Germantown (Wayne Ave/Junction area) have received significant investment, yet continue to face the same issues as 30 years ago.





All in all, it balances out IMO.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by Hermit12

I know this may be difficult for some to understand, but there's more to the city than Center City.

There are a lot of neighborhoods that are worse now than in the early '90s. Yes, some have improved, but a greater number have declined.

I hear this claim a lot from the Negadelphians, yet there's little effort to actually back it up.

If there's a "greater number" of declining neighborhoods, please name them.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by AshbyQuin

I don't understand why people compare 30k-pop. suburban towns with MHI's over 70k to Philadelphia and use it as a 'gothcha'. Like, duh, of course, those places are safer and better run than a city of 1.5 million people with a 20% poverty rate.

Common sense isn't as common anymore.

Precisely. And as someone who actually grew up in suburbia/exurbia, the caricature of the idyllic "Leave it to Beaver" type of place that some Philadelphians seem to idealize outside of the city is nothing short of laughable.

All major city suburbs are LOADED with obnoxious and entitled people, especially wealthy ones. Without fail, the nicest and kindest people I ever encountered in the Philly area were from the city. I sh*t you not.

Pick your poison, I guess.