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It's a really odd looking area. Who thought these would be an attractive addition to QV?
Crazy.
Well, the working belief in the late 70s/early 80s was to spread out those of lower income in single-family homes within relatively affluent and established neighborhoods, rather than bunch them all into a vertical structure of deplorable construction and management. The thinking was that this would simultaneously remove good people from a multi-story tower which was in all practicality controlled by drug dealers and other criminals, more or less imprisoning these good people in their individual small apartment units; while also exposing these people to a different way of life. These reformers believed the community (in this case the Queen Village neighborhood residents) would positively influence those who were driven to pull themselves out of poverty by legal means.
Unfortunately, I think what we found in many cases, is that humans, like all animals, will only do what they have to do to survive, and not much more. So, while society undertook this initiative, we also didn't put many expectations or mandates on the new residents of these homes. Sure, in theory these residents were supposed to hold jobs and not allow extended family to live with them, and also not harbor anyone with a criminal record, but that was far from reality and not enforced. Most residents had free housing, free food, free healthcare, etc..., so really, why go through the burden of working 60-hour weeks when you could simply deal drugs or something similar to earn extra spending cash? The result is a dangerous mess, smack in the middle of two solid neighborhoods, that has had a devastating impact on safety and quality of life for decades with no sign of slowing down.
Every Queen Village and Pennsport resident knew then, and still knows, that if you want to travel north from Washington Ave, or south from Christian or Queen streets or wherever, you either walk up to sixth or down to 2nd. Once you cross past Christian Street walking north or Washington Ave walking south, you are then allowed to go back to 3rd or 4th or 5th streets. You are literally rolling the dice if you try cutting straight across one of those project streets - especially so at night.
Well, the working belief in the late 70s/early 80s was to spread out those of lower income in single-family homes within relatively affluent and established neighborhoods, rather than bunch them all into a vertical structure of deplorable construction and management. The thinking was that this would simultaneously remove good people from a multi-story tower which was in all practicality controlled by drug dealers and other criminals, more or less imprisoning these good people in their individual small apartment units; while also exposing these people to a different way of life. These reformers believed the community (in this case the Queen Village neighborhood residents) would positively influence those who were driven to pull themselves out of poverty by legal means.
Unfortunately, I think what we found in many cases, is that humans, like all animals, will only do what they have to do to survive, and not much more. So, while society undertook this initiative, we also didn't put many expectations or mandates on the new residents of these homes. Sure, in theory these residents were supposed to hold jobs and not allow extended family to live with them, and also not harbor anyone with a criminal record, but that was far from reality and not enforced. Most residents had free housing, free food, free healthcare, etc..., so really, why go through the burden of working 60-hour weeks when you could simply deal drugs or something similar to earn extra spending cash? The result is a dangerous mess, smack in the middle of two solid neighborhoods, that has had a devastating impact on safety and quality of life for decades with no sign of slowing down.
Every Queen Village and Pennsport resident knew then, and still knows, that if you want to travel north from Washington Ave, or south from Christian or Queen streets or wherever, you either walk up to sixth or down to 2nd. Once you cross past Christian Street walking north or Washington Ave walking south, you are then allowed to go back to 3rd or 4th or 5th streets. You are literally rolling the dice if you try cutting straight across one of those project streets - especially so at night.
I wonder whether PHA's leaving the one tower (supposedly for seniors) standing had anything to do with the lack of improvement?
For I can think of three other PHA high-rise projects that got completely dynamited and replaced by low-rise rowhouses (twins in the case of one), and none of the three have the problems their predecessors had.
One is the former MLK Plaza in Hawthorne, whose presence held that neighborhood back. It got replaced by a development of retro-style rowhouses with a community park at one corner. The neighborhood took off after the replacement was completed, and the park is a popular neighborhood gathering spot.
The second is the former Schuylkill Falls Towers in East Falls. Those dumps were replaced by a suburban-style twin development called Hilltop at Falls Ridge. Much quieter and none of the issues the towers presented.
The third is one block to my north in Germantown: the former Queen Lane Tower. There were some 1970s rowhouse apartments to its north that were left standing, while the block where the tower stood got new duplex rowhouses built around its periphery. After the tower was razed, archaeologists discovered the tower had been built on the site of an 18th-century potter's field, and neighbors demanded that land remain undisturbed. The lawn that replaced the tower lot is fenced and gated, and the gates are always locked. The replacement housing (as well as the small rowhouses in the block separating mine from the PHA site) is quiet as well.
The PHA redeveloped Queen Lane itself, while it turned the other two over to private developers who built mixed-income projects. For all I know, Queen Lane may also be mixed-income now. That may have something to do with the difference as well.
Well, the working belief in the late 70s/early 80s was to spread out those of lower income in single-family homes within relatively affluent and established neighborhoods, rather than bunch them all into a vertical structure of deplorable construction and management. The thinking was that this would simultaneously remove good people from a multi-story tower which was in all practicality controlled by drug dealers and other criminals, more or less imprisoning these good people in their individual small apartment units; while also exposing these people to a different way of life. These reformers believed the community (in this case the Queen Village neighborhood residents) would positively influence those who were driven to pull themselves out of poverty by legal means.
Unfortunately, I think what we found in many cases, is that humans, like all animals, will only do what they have to do to survive, and not much more. So, while society undertook this initiative, we also didn't put many expectations or mandates on the new residents of these homes. Sure, in theory these residents were supposed to hold jobs and not allow extended family to live with them, and also not harbor anyone with a criminal record, but that was far from reality and not enforced. Most residents had free housing, free food, free healthcare, etc..., so really, why go through the burden of working 60-hour weeks when you could simply deal drugs or something similar to earn extra spending cash? The result is a dangerous mess, smack in the middle of two solid neighborhoods, that has had a devastating impact on safety and quality of life for decades with no sign of slowing down.
Every Queen Village and Pennsport resident knew then, and still knows, that if you want to travel north from Washington Ave, or south from Christian or Queen streets or wherever, you either walk up to sixth or down to 2nd. Once you cross past Christian Street walking north or Washington Ave walking south, you are then allowed to go back to 3rd or 4th or 5th streets. You are literally rolling the dice if you try cutting straight across one of those project streets - especially so at night.
I've walked by there many times without feeling at all in any danger. Although, not late at night.
I've walked by there many times without feeling at all in any danger. Although, not late at night.
Well, you should be wary, and if you lived nearby for any extended period, you would know at least a handful of locals that got jacked there. Also, there are consistent gunfire in that stretch. That's non-debatable.
Below are just two from the last couple months that are directly in the hot zone I reference. I don't have the inclination to keep googling, but would bet a lot of money that the shooting and violent crime incidences in this small stretch are MUCH higher than other areas in QV.
Yeah, same here. I would avoid walking through the area after dark but during the day it’s fine.
It’s definitely better during the day but even if you don’t get targeted by real criminals, there’s a good chance you get stones thrown at you by pre-teens. I’m not saying you can’t walk down 5th or 3rd between Christian and Washington (hell I’ve done it many times), I’m just saying it’s a bit of the Wild West and unknown in that stretch. No businesses, limited pedestrians - just projects pretty much. Let’s put it this way, if you’re too old to sprint at a moments notice, you have no business being around there when you could simply just go down to 2nd st which is filled with street traffic and store fronts… and importantly, no projects.
The most significant change to Philadelphia in the past 30 years is that I moved away.
I left in 1994, and though I live just a two-hour drive away, I hardly ever visit. I can think of three times in the past dozen years. My most recent visit was in December 2019 (thankfully, before COVID came along and messed things up), and I was blown away with the improvements to Walnut and Chestnut streets through University City. The area looked so much better than it did when I lived there. The block on Pine Street where I lived hadn't changed a bit.
A previous poster mentioned the height limits on Center City buildings before One Liberty Place. Breaking that barrier was one of the best things that ever happened in Philadelphia, IMO. Before, they'd build the buildings up to just a foot shorter than Billy Penn's statue, so you had a bunch of squat, same-height buildings all crowding around each other. And you couldn't even see the statue anyway, unless you were on Market Street, Broad Street, or the Ben Franklin Parkway. The skyline looks so much better now than it did back then.
I watched the coverage of the 2020 riots. I saw the crowds tearing up Walnut Street in Center City (or was it Chestnut Street?) and also looting various stores on 52nd Street. A friend of mine who lives in South Philly told me about the ongoing sounds of explosions tearing through the night as gangs blew open one ATM after another. And meanwhile, I sat in an upstairs room in my suburban house, overlooking some woods, and the only sound I could hear was crickets. Have the damaged areas recovered from the riots?
I'm glad for the years I spent in Philadelphia, and I wish the city much success in overcoming its challenges and building on its strengths. But they'll have to do it without me. I have no desire whatsoever to ever live there again. I'm not even sure I'll ever visit again. For me, it's in the past.
The most significant change to Philadelphia in the past 30 years is that I moved away.
I left in 1994, and though I live just a two-hour drive away, I hardly ever visit. I can think of three times in the past dozen years. My most recent visit was in December 2019 (thankfully, before COVID came along and messed things up), and I was blown away with the improvements to Walnut and Chestnut streets through University City. The area looked so much better than it did when I lived there. The block on Pine Street where I lived hadn't changed a bit.
A previous poster mentioned the height limits on Center City buildings before One Liberty Place. Breaking that barrier was one of the best things that ever happened in Philadelphia, IMO. Before, they'd build the buildings up to just a foot shorter than Billy Penn's statue, so you had a bunch of squat, same-height buildings all crowding around each other. And you couldn't even see the statue anyway, unless you were on Market Street, Broad Street, or the Ben Franklin Parkway. The skyline looks so much better now than it did back then.
I watched the coverage of the 2020 riots. I saw the crowds tearing up Walnut Street in Center City (or was it Chestnut Street?) and also looting various stores on 52nd Street. A friend of mine who lives in South Philly told me about the ongoing sounds of explosions tearing through the night as gangs blew open one ATM after another. And meanwhile, I sat in an upstairs room in my suburban house, overlooking some woods, and the only sound I could hear was crickets. Have the damaged areas recovered from the riots?
I'm glad for the years I spent in Philadelphia, and I wish the city much success in overcoming its challenges and building on its strengths. But they'll have to do it without me. I have no desire whatsoever to ever live there again. I'm not even sure I'll ever visit again. For me, it's in the past.
The hole in the 1700 block of Walnut Street where anarchist types torched a row of buildings remains, but there's a pop-up beer garden there now and plans announced for a mixed-use multi-story residential-over-retail building.
One week after looters tore up Jeff Brown's ShopRite in the Park West Shopping Center on 52d Street, Brown had the store repaired and ready to reopen. I remember speaking with a security guard I knew in the center's parking lot the day before the reopening. He told me how owners of the smaller shops in the center were frantically calling the cops to get them to come to the scene, but they had all gone to Center City.
Save for that hole in the 1700 block of Walnut, any signs of the damage caused by the looting (more than any rioting) have vanished. The drugstore looters broke into near where I lived at the time in East Germantown (there's a photo of it in this essay I wrote two days after George Floyd Weekend; the essay landed me on CBS3 for a segment on it) reopened a month later. I'd say that, if anything, COVID has had a bigger negative impact on this city than the riots did. Some companies have told their workers they needed to return to the office at least three days a week, but many more — including mine — remain fully remote (we even gave up our offices in January of this year). And even though violent crimes, which climbed during the pandemic, are falling again, quality-of-life misdemeanors seem to have risen of late (though those too seem to be waning again. However, you don't want to ride the Market-Frankford Line if you can help it).
That’s fine, and that’s your choice. But it’s a fairly thriving city located in a fairly thriving region that gets by without hundreds of thousands of Federal government jobs and related consultants, so there’s that.
That’s fine, and that’s your choice. But it’s a fairly thriving city located in a fairly thriving region that gets by without hundreds of thousands of Federal government jobs and related consultants, so there’s that.
This. Philly still "pulls itself up by itself up by its bootstraps" like few other cities.
No DC lobbyists, Wall Street ponzi schemes, and Big Tech with "smoke and mirrors" valuations propping it up, it manages to do extremely well considering.
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