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I am considering a move to the Philadelphia suburbs but have never lived anywhere on the East Coast. We currently live in a fairly affluent, densely populated, family-oriented town about a half-hour from the city of Chicago. We live near a train line. It's nice here but the lots are very small. Our neighborhood is full of teardowns. Is that common in Philadelphia? I've looked bit on-line and it looks quite different from Chicago suburbs. There seems to be so much land which is great. It surprises me though because I think of the East as congested. Can anyone who knows Chicago provide insight? Also, is family life different there? Are the suburbs attractive? Are the people different?
My father has lived in Schaumberg, Grays Lake, and now lives in Spring Grove. He works in the city for Metra. I'm rather familiar with Chicago and the burbs as I've visited there very often for over 20 years.
I don't think that Philadelphia and Chicago are very similar in mood and attitude. Chicago is much more cold, expensive, and commuting by car is actually worse than Philadelphia. On the other hand, Chicago is closer to a beach and has a much nicer transit system, and has less litter. I don't think that either is necessarily better, they are just different. Both cities have interesting accents, that's for sure. I think that people in Chicago tend to be more friendly...but also more dorky.
I don't see a lot of tear-downs of older homes in Philly, necessarily, but the insides get completely gutted and rehabbed. In some of the burbs, the lots are being split, and new homes are being built on the lot adjacent to an older home. The cool thing about this is the homes aren't gigantic mcmansions, but efficient little homes which are similar to the style of the older homes in the neighborhood.
Some suburbs have larger lots, and some are tiny. Like the Chicago burbs, the further you are from the city, the larger the lots. I think that a lot of daily life activities may be similar, except that Philly doesn't have such rough winters, so people are likely to be out and about more in the winter. Snack foods are equally unhealthy (Chicago hot dogs and pizza vs. Philly cheesteaks). I think that the East Coast may seem more congested because the roads are smaller and more twisty. The area is more hilly, while much of the area surrounding Chicago is more flat, and the roads are generally more wide. It just feels like there is more open space around Chicago.
Is there a mood in a certain area there you are trying to capture if you move to Philly?
We lived in Palatine forever and then moved to the Philadelphia area about three years ago. I would agree with the summary from the first post.
You don't have as much sprawl here since Philly is a smaller city, so you can be closer to the city and still have some land. The real estate taxes for the most part are lower than Cook County, but then your insurance costs and the wage tax (a tax Philly puts on income) make up for it.
I hate to generalize, but it has been harder to get to know our neighbors here. We moved here for the first time about 3 yrs ago and just never got to know anyone - we were living in the city of Philly then. We moved to FL for about a year and just moved back to Philly about 2 weeks ago. We decided not to live in the city thinking it would be different in the suburbs. Well it hasn't been so far - we even went to a block party where no one even introduced themselves. When we moved into our home in Palatine and again in FL, the neighbors were over the first day to say hello and introduce themselves. Very odd, but I have heard others say the same thing about the area...
But that being said the area is gorgeous and there is so much to do. My daughter loves history and you can't turn around without bumping into some historical something or other here. You are also close to the mountains for hiking and skiing, close to New York City and there is so much to do in Philadelphia you will never get bored.
And the best part is that you still get the seasons, but it doesn't tend to get as cold as Chicago. For me that is one of the biggest plusses of the area. We still have all our family in the Chicago area and I was so glad to not be living through the winter Chicago just had! Usually when it snows here, it warms and melts in a few days - so you get the pretty nice new snow, but right about when it gets grey and ugly, it melts!
Chicago is Midwest friendly and Philadelphia is East Coast semi rude. Once your neighbors know you they treat you like family but they may give you the once over or evil eye until then. Chicago is a city of transplants. Philly is a city of generations. Philly has older and therefore more varied architecture. Chicago is cleaner, safer, dare I say more educated/cultured on the whole.
They are both great cities but completely different vibes. I would never trade Philly for Chicago though. Its the genuine article and really has stood the test of time relatively unchanged.
So you're looking for a larger lot in a town without a lot of tear-downs and you want to be near the train and about 30 minutes from Center City?
Chicago is twice the size of Philadelphia so that's something to keep in mind. I only visited there but I found the Chicago suburbs to be more like the suburbs in North Jersey or in Queens/Nassau County than like anything in Philly.
That said, I don't think you'll find day-to-day life to be much different here than there. I will say that here seems to be much more about tradition and family as it sometimes seems like everyone here grew up around here. I've been here for 9 years now and still feel like a cultural outsider sometimes and I grew up 70 miles away. In Chicago a lot of people move there to make money so in that regard it's more like New York.
I really think the whole rudeness/friendliness thing is overblown. If you're a friendly and chatty midwesterner then 90% of the people you bump into are going to be friendly right back. Some people might not be chatty right off the bat but that's just how some people are here, you have to build some rapport. It doesn't mean they won't be friendly and eventually invite you over, just give it some time.
I had no problem making friends when I moved here and I think if you're looking at moving to a town on a rail line where people are out and about (on foot) and being social that you'll meet a lot of people easily.
We do have some amazing suburbs. If you're using one of the web based maps (google or msn) you can see the train stations and you can do the street view or bird's eye thing. I would look along the R3 rail line Media, Swarthmore, etc. That area is really nice. Also the R5 anywhere from Narberth out to Bryn Mawr is great. There are also 3 suburban trolley routes that run into Delaware and Montgomery Counties and connect with the el into center city. The Route 101 from Drexel Hill out to Media is worth checking out. So is the Route 100 from the city line out to Bryn Mawr.
Unlike Chicago the whole suburban rail system is connected so all of the trains come into Center City on one side, make a few stops underground, then go back out to the suburbs on the other side. So north of the city the R5 continues as does the R2. You'll find some nice towns out that way too. Lansdale, North Wales, Ambler, Jenkintown, Glenside, Abington, Warminster, etc.
The New Jersey side also has Collingswood, Westmont, and Haddonfield along the PATCO line and Palmyra, Riverton, Cinnaminson and Delran along the Riverline.
You will find the winters here glorious. I had friends from Rochester, NY (pretty close to the lake, actually) and used to go visit for a week every year around Christmas. When I came home from there I felt like I just drove to another season. Our winter, by Chicago standards, lasts for about a month in January/February.
Would look into eastern Cherry Hill, NJ....lots of cheap, newer houses on ~0.5 acres; excellent public schools; very NorthShore-like in its insulation from crime and many education-oriented families; an effortless ?15mi, 30-40min drive (even in rush hr) into CenterCity....in many ways, would argue CH, along w/a few Chic suburbs like Winnetka/Hinsdale, offer best value in world in terms of high QOL vs reasonable COL....
Phila region is a far less powerful economy than Chic region...Phila's crown jewel is Wharton, perhaps world's leading institution for undergraduate finance education, but Phila pales in comparison to Chic as a financial center or much else economically speaking....
Phila also has a rather primitive freeway network (unlike Chic's more powerful freeways radiating out of Loop, esp Kennedy/Edens)....the PA suburbs of Phila truly have laughable freeway links into CC; NJ suburbs have far more efficient fwy routes into CC....my sense is most middle/upper-income people in Phila region drive to office, unlike NYC/Chic....it's simply rather easy, cheap, safe to drive, rather than any silly mass transit where one risks exposure to Phila's deep urban poverty/crime...
E Coast is generally less friendly than Chic region; Phila (despite large population of region) is about as insular a town as Baltimore, Cleveland or Detroit...very few professionals transfer to Phila from other urban regions (it simply lacks the dynamic, cosmopolitan economy of a NYC/Chic/SF)....sure, many, many smart kids from all over US/RoW spend 2-3-4 yrs at Wharton undergrad, but nearly all immediately leave for NYC (and SF) to pursue their careers....
I'll have to respectfully disagree with a few points here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsw
....my sense is most middle/upper-income people in Phila region drive to office, unlike NYC/Chic....it's simply rather easy, cheap, safe to drive, rather than any silly mass transit where one risks exposure to Phila's deep urban poverty/crime...
70% of Center City workers take transit to work. Less than 20% drive. In fact, about 85% of the regional rail ridership is people going to work in Center City. The number is closer to 90% for PATCO. I've ridden Metra and I can say that SEPTA regional rail is a far more white collar affair. Even on the subway/el/bus you won't find much difference between SEPTA and the CTA.
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E Coast is generally less friendly than Chic region; Phila (despite large population of region) is about as insular a town as Baltimore, Cleveland or Detroit...very few professionals transfer to Phila from other urban regions (it simply lacks the dynamic, cosmopolitan economy of a NYC/Chic/SF)....sure, many, many smart kids from all over US/RoW spend 2-3-4 yrs at Wharton undergrad, but nearly all immediately leave for NYC (and SF) to pursue their careers....
I think this might have been true 10 years ago but it's not today. There's just no comparing Philly to Baltimore and certainly not Detroit or Cleveland. I know Cleveland and Baltimore and the economy here is far more dynamic than any of those places. Far from recent college grads fleeing Philly (maybe the Wharton kids - but they weren't staying anyway) wave after wave keep landing on these shores as refugees from the crushing cost of living in Brooklyn, DC and Boston and the incredibly competitive job markets.
And I would say that the evidence is clearly painted on the faces of the people filling up the exploding neighborhoods in South Philly, Fishtown, Northern Liberties, Fairmount, the Loft District, University City and most of Northwest Philly.
Would look into eastern Cherry Hill, NJ....lots of cheap, newer houses on ~0.5 acres; excellent public schools; very NorthShore-like in its insulation from crime and many education-oriented families; an effortless ?15mi, 30-40min drive (even in rush hr) into CenterCity....in many ways, would argue CH, along w/a few Chic suburbs like Winnetka/Hinsdale, offer best value in world in terms of high QOL vs reasonable COL....
This is the only paragraph I recommend you pay attention to. The rest is too biased to be useful...
E Coast is generally less friendly than Chic region; Phila (despite large population of region) is about as insular a town as Baltimore, Cleveland or Detroit...very few professionals transfer to Phila from other urban regions (it simply lacks the dynamic, cosmopolitan economy of a NYC/Chic/SF)....sure, many, many smart kids from all over US/RoW spend 2-3-4 yrs at Wharton undergrad, but nearly all immediately leave for NYC (and SF) to pursue their careers....
NYC is only and hour an a half away via Amtrak. the bright-eyed high achievers can live in Philly & work in Jersey or NY, which some do. same with B'more & DC. plus you get more bang for your buck housing-wise. these towns are not as geographically isolated as the other towns you mentioned.
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