Philadelphia's next hot neighborhood? (Washington, Columbia: homes, movie theater, college)

[nkosiek]

Originally Posted by kyle19125

OK, now back on topic.

How about Gray's Ferry/Point Breeze? I know it's reputation is less than stellar, but I have heard of a somewhat significant gay presence moving into the neighborhood. Anyone who has paid any attention to the gentrification process knows this as one of the early indicators.

As someone who teaches in that area and spends much of my day in Gray's Ferry, I'm not so sure. The western edge towards 76 isn't really looking great except the new development from the city a few years ago. The high school still has a reputation based on the old one in the same place (not undeserved either). There's still too much crime and quality of life issues around.

I do see Penn and Drexel students starting to find some cheaper houses close to Gray's Ferry Ave but I'm not so sure its going to turn anytime in the next 5 years.

[solibs]

Originally Posted by Commuting North

Thanks pman, but I'm well aware that JUNGA is a realtor-created term (thus why I said as much in my post). In fact, if you want to get specific, just about every named section of neighborhood is a realtor-created, or city-created term to boost the appeal of the neighborhood.

I used to work for a small residential developer who worked almost exclusively in the city. I used to have to do all of the research to find out what the neighborhoods were called because the realtors were always coming back with these names that were wildly inaccurate. After talking to some of them about it, they honestly just don't know because most of them live in the suburbs. I know people hate them but they're really not that smart and definitely not organized enough to name a neighborhood.

The neighborhood names that people are using these days correspond either to the historical names for the area (NoLibs, Fishtown, Pennsport, Brewerytown, etc) or, in the case of names that overlap two historical areas, a new name created by a group of local residents. Take Passyunk Square for example - named for the large park in the middle of the neighborhood that has since been renamed Columbus Square. The name was coined by the civic association. Same with East Passyunk Crossing. Same with Lower Moyamensing, Bella Vista, West Passyunk Point, New Kensington/West Kensington, etc.

[solibs]

You mentioned Passyunk Square, of course, EPX belongs in there too. There really wasn't much to gentrify as it was already a middle-class neighborhood but the explosion on the Avenue is mostly in EPX. On that side of Broad St. LoMo is next in line although I think before that place really takes off Newbold (where I live) is next.

In North Philly it's definitely the area just north of Girard and I think it'll move along quicker the closer to the park you are. Along the river I can see a lot more happening in Port Richmond but I think it's going to stay pretty close to the el/15 trolley.

In West Philly it's definitely that area just west of 50th St. between the R3 and Market St. Once it crosses 52nd St. it's a done deal out to Cobbs Creek.

I also happen to think west Germantown is on the waiting list. The seeds have already been planted there and it has excellent bones for that sort of thing.

Originally Posted by kyle19125

OK, now back on topic.

How about Gray's Ferry/Point Breeze? I know it's reputation is less than stellar, but I have heard of a somewhat significant gay presence moving into the neighborhood. Anyone who has paid any attention to the gentrification process knows this as one of the early indicators.

You might find students and such along Grays Ferry Avenue in the Grad. Hospital neighborhood but in Grays Ferry proper, heck no. Grays Ferry south of Tasker is fairly stable. North i think it's going to get worse before it gets better - and here's why . . . I know a few gay couples who have moved to 17th/18th & Federal/Wharton but they're certainly not a "presence." What's happening on Ellsworth/Federal/Wharton is just people "walking 'til they qualify" and walking right through Grad. Hospital - but no one is venturing west of 25th St - or 22nd St. for that matter. The opposite end of Newbold, from Tasker south, is a lot of first time buyers who were renting in Passyunk Square or Bella Vista and can't afford to buy there. That's where things are happening with the South Philly Taproom, Brew, Lucky Old Souls (which should be open in March) and Circles (Thai food) which is just take-out now but should be expanding in the next year. Although, something big (similar to Johnny Brenda's) might be happening around 15th & Federal.

Anyway, all of this stuff is pushing the crime and section 8 further south into Point Breeze and west into grays ferry. I've been living here for a while and we used to have some crackheads living around the corner. We eventually got them kicked out and now they live over on 19th St. We had a section 8 "family" living on the same block who caused a lot more problems than the crackheads that preceded them, we got them kicked out and they moved to Grays Ferry.

[JHG722]

Originally Posted by john_starks

i would love it to be N. Philly by Temple. close to all the amenities of center city and has a big college campus which should spark some growth of hip/trendy stores, bars and restaurants

a man can dream can't he?

It's going to happen. It might take 20 years, but it's going to happen. Especially with our president's vision for the future. The Fresh Grocer coming in January is a great start.

[kyle19125]

Originally Posted by JHG722

It's going to happen. It might take 20 years, but it's going to happen. Especially with our president's vision for the future. The Fresh Grocer coming in January is a great start.

If anyone was in the Morningside Heights/Columbia University neighborhood ten years ago (and today), you would see some parallels. Columbia basically went on a spending spree and bought every piece of property they could get their hands on within several blocks in any direction. They then utilized it for university purposes or sold/leased it out for more upscale commercial/residential use. It appears Temple is using a more slimmed down model, but still should prove effective in a few/several years.

[I'd love to travel]

What about brewerytown ? Things seem to be happening there.

[MBlueR]

I'm sorry but Brewerytown is scary, they had to auction off properties there awhile back because they were just not selling. If you're inside the gates, it's ok, but I know people, who live there and they've told me about cars being set on fire in the area, hearing guns going off, etc. A lot will need to happen before Brewerytown is "up and coming."

[Commuting North]

Yeah, I agree with you on this one MBlueR. Out of all the neighborhoods listed, I think Brewerytown will be the last to gentrify (if it ever does).

[Shizzles]

I think it'll be several areas:

1) The entire east side of South Philly. It's only a matter of time before something is done about the 5th/6th st corridor and once that happens, pretty much everything btw the Delaware and ~16/17sts south of South is fair game. The West side of South Philly has a ways to go. I can see the gentrification making it's way down as far as Washington, but beyond that? No Mas.

2) Near West Philly. I define this area as being the entirety of West Philly east of 52nd st. I think that eventually Mantua will being to turn as will parts of Parkside due to Fairmount park. The UPenn students will follow the trolleys like spider webs and make everything btw Market and Baltimore east of ~50/51st their hood, as well as possibly even penitrate the far northern tip of Kingsessing. I don't agree w/ people saying Cobbs Creek is gonna take off. Yes, there is a thriving African immigrant community, but they have drive that the natives do not (sorry, it's true) and will want the trees, grass, saftey and good schools the Asian and European immigrants want. Hence, it's off to the suburbs once the 2nd generation takes root. Also, the North side of West Philly is a warzone with the expection of Overbrook and Wynnfield. That's not going to change for a while either.

3) The River Wards. Now that Fishtown is solidly established almost all the way up to Lehigh, It's only a matter of time before Port Richmond and Old Kensington being to join in. The El along with intact ethnic neighborhoods create an already built in family/community enviorment for new people. West Kensington will continue to rot, however. Frankford might have some hope on for it based on the fact that despite high crime, it really hasn't descended into complete anarchy unlike other areas.

[solibs]

My neighbor's brother was renting for a while in Fairmount and recently bought at 29th & Master. They were throwing a birthday party for my neighbor up there - I was a little worried about going but felt a little silly afterwards. It looks a lot worse than it is.

Because of the proximity to the park I think that area will improve before the areas closer to Broad St. First because the houses are smaller and newer and thus, easier to fix. Closer to Broad the houses are enormous and take more money to fix than the neighborhood will support. If Temple can really make things happen between Cecil B. and Girard then it could happen sooner.

Originally Posted by Shizzles

I think it'll be several areas:

1) The entire east side of South Philly. It's only a matter of time before something is done about the 5th/6th st corridor and once that happens, pretty much everything btw the Delaware and ~16/17sts south of South is fair game. The West side of South Philly has a ways to go. I can see the gentrification making it's way down as far as Washington, but beyond that? No Mas.

ahh, spoken like someone who lives in the Center City bubble
Seriously though, people in South Philly consider the areas north of Washington as "the place that became Center City."

Everything north of Washington is done. The only reason you still see some empty lots there is because of the state of the economy. Still, construction there continues. I just stumbled upon an open house there ~ 15 & Christian, 3 beds, 2.5 baths, 1800 s/f for $500k. It's not unique.

West of Broad, South of Washington is only sketchy between Washington and Tasker. Even still there are a lot of new houses and rehabs selling for ~ $250k along Ellsworth and Federal. As you go south from Washington (i'm talking about Broad to 18th) it gets worse, hitting a low point around Reed St. and getting noticeably better as you pass Tasker - and Girard Estates and Packer Park are the wealthiest neighborhoods in South Philly.

2) Near West Philly. I define this area as being the entirety of West Philly east of 52nd st. I think that eventually Mantua will being to turn as will parts of Parkside due to Fairmount park. The UPenn students will follow the trolleys like spider webs and make everything btw Market and Baltimore east of ~50/51st their hood, as well as possibly even penitrate the far northern tip of Kingsessing. I don't agree w/ people saying Cobbs Creek is gonna take off. Yes, there is a thriving African immigrant community, but they have drive that the natives do not (sorry, it's true) and will want the trees, grass, saftey and good schools the Asian and European immigrants want. Hence, it's off to the suburbs once the 2nd generation takes root. Also, the North side of West Philly is a warzone with the expection of Overbrook and Wynnfield. That's not going to change for a while either.

I don't think 52nd St. will be a barrier for long. When the quality of retail improves there, and it eventually will, it's going to unite both sides of 52nd St. and intrepid people will have no problem jumping over. I see that happening before any of the neighborhoods north of Market start to turn around.