New Yorkers moving to Philly? Many? Noticeable? (Philadelphia, Wall: lower-class, home)

[57thandMalcolm]

Very interesting posts. Philly at this point is more cosmopolitan than ever before, but the contrast with NYC will always be striking, though perhaps not as much as some other (smaller) cities. Philly's varied Victorian architecture, Center City with its narrow cavernous streets, U City which is a melting pot of students and residents from Africa, Asia, and Europe, the vibe (fast paced, hard nosed but tempered with elements of friendliness more often associated with the south), improved city government, a plethora of restaurants, boutiques, unique stores, etc make a Philly a cool city with character, almost a cousin of NY (sort of a Brooklyn/Queens South maybe lol). The pre Guilani NY comparison someone mentioned is spot on. Racial problems here are nothing like they were when I was growing up; it was quite like Boston and Chicago then. That said, Philly has always had a tolerant side as well, not all whites were racist or all blacks angry, and help/kindness could come from the most unexpected people. Re: economics and White flight, I think the corruption and blue collar resentment of the rich borne out of the depression fueled bad municipal decision making for decades. The industries did evacuate the cities for cheaper land, but the trend of manufacturing industries seeking lower operating costs elsewhere would have happened IMO even if Hoover was the president lol. Especially during a depression. White flight in general probably did begin as a result of the Great Migration, but in Philly to my knowledge it really took hold in the 50's and 60's when whole neighborhoods were ceded to blacks (West Philly, half of Southwest Philly, North Philly) because one or two were able to move into the area.

[Marius Pontmercy]

It was change of lifestyle that occurred post-WWII. Cities were viewed by those in urban planning, sociological, and architectural circles as being giant mistakes and blights. The concept of the surburb, or a low density green neighborhood where land uses are strictly divided, was really brought about in the 30s and first modeled by the government during the Great Depression. The idea was that, as the government gained greater oversight and power out of helping a populace hard hit by the economic downturn, it was also able to implement plans to, as they saw it, benefit and improve people's quality of life. At the same time the transactions from people buying new homes would go a long way towards helping out the economy, not to mention the people who could be employed to build them. The ideas originally stem from an Englishman named Ebenezer Howard, an English planner who was appalled by the conditions in late 19th century London. His observations led him to believe that humans were best off living in low density, town or village-like settings, and postulated his model communities which are essentially prototype suburban communities. This all came from people looking at city conditions and imagining some sort of green utopia. In fact, its where the idea for projects came from too. The idea that you could put everyone in a high-rise apartment building and surround it with happy green parks was supposed to "improve living standards" for the urban poor, and we all know how that turned out. The suburb also necessitated automobile transport which further degraded the old, walkable or transit oriented city neighborhoods. Really it was the planners along with some help from the government, and the developers they enabled through their ideas, that are responsible for white flight. Without the people who developed the model as an idealized living standard to emulate, and the government and private sectors backing to condone and provide capital to the movement, it never would have happened, at least not on the scale that it happened in the United States. Race had something of a factor with segregation later. I would say that the redlining that took place is what lead to the huge disparity between white suburbs and black inner cities.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by solibs

Center City is also far more accessible for suburbanites than NYC is. It's nothing for a couple in Bryn Mawr or Haddonfield (or even Wilmington) to be sitting on the couch and say "hey, let's see if we can get reservations at Tinto" and then hop in the car. Heading into Manhattan on a whim happens a lot less frequently.

That's appealing. It's one of the things we like about SF. Good to know you can pull it off in Philly.

[john_starks]

there are plenty. me being one of em

from my experience - the majority are from eastern big cities - boston, b;more, ny, dc

then it gets sparse

[rmxcarol]

I have seen quite an influx of New Yorkers in the past two years. Mostly because housing is very affordable in Philadelphia. My clients tell me that there are buses which provide easy and affordable commuting to Manhattan, Brooklyn, etc., so they can easily access their employment. It is becoming commonplace for lenders to accept the letters of explanation for distance to work because it is seen so frequently in this area.

[pman]

Originally Posted by john_starks

there are plenty. me being one of em

from my experience - the majority are from eastern big cities - boston, b;more, ny, dc

then it gets sparse

pittsburgh has to be pretty high on that list as well, lots of burghers

[ElijahAstin]

A lot of New Yorkers go to Penn, and a surprising number end up sticking around after graduation.

[john_starks]

Originally Posted by pman

pittsburgh has to be pretty high on that list as well, lots of burghers

ah, that explains a lot of the steelers gear i see around

[rotodome]

IMO it's kind of funny to make a big deal about "New Yorkers moving to Philly", since such a huge number of "New Yorkers", especially professionals, aren't people that grew up there or anything.
What does "New Yorker" even mean? I've lived here for almost 8 years now. Am I a New Yorker, or am I still a Philadelphian? (In my mind, it's the 2nd thing) But then, lots of people here who just moved here from Oklahoma or whatever last month will enthusiastically call themselves "New Yorkers". Are they? It's all a little ambiguous..

I think they're all just people who moved to there from someplace, and now are moving again.
We're just talking about people going through their lives. They moved to NY from somewhere else for one reason, and then are moving away (possibly BACK) to Philly from NY for most likely a completely different reason. No one ever makes a big deal about the legions of people from every city (Philly included) who move to NY all the time, to advance their career, experience a new place, follow a dream, etc, because that's just what people do. People have also always left NY in huge numbers to go to other places, when it made sense for their lives. And then they're replaced by newcomers, and the cycle goes on.

I guess that's a bit foreign to the "lifer" mentality that is very prevalent in Philly, where so many people living/working in the city grew up in the area. But I think it's great if MORE people are moving to Philly from outside the area, as the city really needs more new blood and transient energy.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy

It was change of lifestyle that occurred post-WWII. Cities were viewed by those in urban planning, sociological, and architectural circles as being giant mistakes and blights. The concept of the surburb, or a low density green neighborhood where land uses are strictly divided, was really brought about in the 30s and first modeled by the government during the Great Depression. The idea was that, as the government gained greater oversight and power out of helping a populace hard hit by the economic downturn, it was also able to implement plans to, as they saw it, benefit and improve people's quality of life. At the same time the transactions from people buying new homes would go a long way towards helping out the economy, not to mention the people who could be employed to build them. The ideas originally stem from an Englishman named Ebenezer Howard, an English planner who was appalled by the conditions in late 19th century London. His observations led him to believe that humans were best off living in low density, town or village-like settings, and postulated his model communities which are essentially prototype suburban communities. This all came from people looking at city conditions and imagining some sort of green utopia. In fact, its where the idea for projects came from too. The idea that you could put everyone in a high-rise apartment building and surround it with happy green parks was supposed to "improve living standards" for the urban poor, and we all know how that turned out. The suburb also necessitated automobile transport which further degraded the old, walkable or transit oriented city neighborhoods. Really it was the planners along with some help from the government, and the developers they enabled through their ideas, that are responsible for white flight. Without the people who developed the model as an idealized living standard to emulate, and the government and private sectors backing to condone and provide capital to the movement, it never would have happened, at least not on the scale that it happened in the United States. Race had something of a factor with segregation later. I would say that the redlining that took place is what lead to the huge disparity between white suburbs and black inner cities.

no, the suburb was a creation of the railroad which made it possible to travel long distances daily (now known as a commute). the word commuter is derived from those that paid commuted fares on the railroads, aka monthlies, who lived in suburbs. electrified streetcars also gave rise to new streetcar suburbs since people could travel faster. the segregation of uses became popular in the 1920's, before the depression. some people believe it was a response by rich people to control who could live in their neighborhoods since buses could change routes easily and more and more people (riff raff) were buying cars...if you required minimum lot sizes, etc you could control what kind of person moved into your neighborhood. the idea of garden highrises predates the 30's as well but the 30's is when the idea made it into public housing. Garden court was built in the 1920's. today's conception the suburbs as housing, shopping, offices located separately and connected by highways does date to the 30's (1938 world's fair) but the ideas are an outgrowth of modernism and technological changes. this "new world order" was seen by FDR as a way to remake the nation and, in doing so, revive its economy.