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That's entirely because of development patterns. If you're coming up from the south, the first things you see are the airport, a shipyard, and a barren floodplain. Most of the heavy industry is in that area, as well as other things that NIMBYs don't want, such as power and sewage plants. I think if you came in from the north or west, you'd be more impressed.
That's pretty much what I just said. No doubt there are beautiful areas, but you won't see most of them from the highway, as you might in some other places as I mentioned, so an "outsider" will assume it's all that way.
Erie was much more normal. It's functional, with some run down places but really what you would expect to see in most any town. New growth on the edge with a working core which shows signs of rehabilitation after economic decay. Someone brought up poverty before- Appearently Erie is a very poor area too, however Reading was much worse off. People in Reading sat on the stoop of their home in the middle of the day with nothing to do.. I'm sure povery plays a role, but I'm not conviced it explains all what I've seen.
But it seems there is something uniqe in PA. I wish I had time to hit the central part of the state, away from areas with concentrated heavily divided labor to see how the country folk were doing. Quite a pretty area too in those parts. I'll agree that Philly has a good chance of positive change as the national trend is young affluent moving more intown. I saw the mayor going to new resturants after that mob caused a scene. I wish him luck, but think he may only be treating a symptom and not the disease. Anyhow, that's it as I'm sure your all tired about hearing bad things. But this was only an honest attempt to report a truth, and as is often in life lots of us don't want that. I would not at all be offended if Atlanta or anywhere else were taken apart. Infact West End is a tough area. Ben Hill is a tough area. And lets face it, education was never the goal of the South (and much of the nation) until recently when it became economically feasable and useful to do so. You can sure tell if you look. But in PA and the NE that tradition is much stronger, so I suppose I figured the 'metropolis' in NE would be more advanced and better run. Tis not so.
Joe, I am assuming you are referring to those in Philly with an entitlement mentality. And not the metro as a whole, or those making positive change through gentrifcation (for lack of a better term).
Depending on your answer --
Would it be preferable to steer people to better parts of the metro/city. Rather than steer them to other cities that have their own positives/negatives?
When I say Philly, I mean those neighborhoods of Philly where the people's parents, grandparents, cousins all have lived in their neighborhood. I'm not talking about rich Rittenhouse or new Manayunk, or Roxborough, or the extreme far northeast.
I'm talking about anywhere, N Philly, S Philly, West Philly, Lower NE and SW. The native Philadelphians of the latter half of the 20th century to now.
When I say Philly, I mean those neighborhoods of Philly where the people's parents, grandparents, cousins all have lived in their neighborhood. I'm not talking about rich Rittenhouse or new Manayunk, or Roxborough, or the extreme far northeast.
I'm talking about anywhere, N Philly, S Philly, West Philly, Lower NE and SW. The native Philadelphians of the latter half of the 20th century to now.
Which is what, in part, separates Philly from one of its peer cities, Boston. Boston, for whatever reason, also is just as old as Philly if not older by a few decades; Boston too had lots of industry and the deindustrialization took its toll. But look at it now...not just the city but the overall metro area of Boston usually outshines that of Philly.
I'm not from Philly either, but am looking to move there. IN part because in all my visits there, I have seen some good parts and don't mind the good parts while I can avoid the bad ones. But whoever mentioned customer service and the "just enough" personality of Philly really knows their city well! I think that is what keeps Philly down. That, and the slow pace of gentrification....gentrification is almost a bad word in Philadelphia...how dare the "outsiders" with money come and take our 'hood away from us!?! I suppose part of that thinking is because indeed Philadelphia is not a major city with its one, true identity...it is, rather, a collection of various neighborhoods. Some people I have had a chance to interact with online, pride themselves on being able to stick around in their own little 'hood and find no need to go to the other side of town, nevermind going to another city or even across the state! Is it any wonder, then, that some of these people simply are outmoded and cannot comprehend that towns in the South and West that were little more than rest stops on wagon trails when Philly was in its heyday, are not only catching up with Philly but in some sense are leaving Philly in the dust.
Just read this article from the Philly Biz Journal to get some idea of the state of the city:
“Overall, the picture is not as grim as one might expect after a tough year,” said Larry Eichel, project director of the Philadelphia Research Initiative, who was hired in 2008 to study critical issues facing the city. “But the city’s chronic problems — including a high poverty rate, low educational attainment level and high local tax burden—are as serious as ever.”
Philadelphia’s poverty rate (24.3 percent) is among the highest in the nation, the combined state and local tax burden is one of the highest of any major city and the educational attainment level (21 percent of adults have college degrees) is well below the national average.
The city had an average of 651,000 jobs within city limits last year, the lowest in its modern history after shedding 1.7 percent of jobs, while the region as a whole shed 3.4 percent. Since 2000, every major sector in the Philadelphia job market has declined, except for education and health services, which added 4,100 jobs last year.
On a promising note, major crimes dipped by just more than 10 percent to 73,581 in the city last year, with the number of reported major crimes, which include murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, major theft and vehicle theft, reaching the lowest level since 1978. Violent crime in the city is at the lowest level since 1989.
Following an appeal by the city, the U.S. Census Bureau also determined it had been undercounting Philadelphia’s population for years and revised its estimates for 2008 from 1,447,395 to 1,540,351 and placed 2009 even higher at 1,547,297.
A recent Pew poll found a positive outlook among Philadelphians, who believe the city is headed in the right direction and by a ratio of more than 3-to-1 expect the city to be a better place five years from now than it is today.
Pew plans to publish a full sequel to the original State of the City report next year.
oh, and whatever the OP said about Dallas before deleting it (someone else copied it in their reply so it's not all lost!)... Dallas has a pretty black-and-white personality. The town (and county) south of Trinity River, is pretty much one huge ghetto with basically all the ghetto statistics you might find...poverty, drugs, crime, minorities walking about in bright day light seemingly going nowhere in any hurry, abandoned properties, forlorn malls...the whole schabang. Dallas north of Trinity River is the rich part, mostly white, and conservative. Dallas hosts the most number of U.S. billionaires as local residents, and they all live in the uber-rich enclave of Highland Park or out in the rich suburbs much further north such as Plano. Even so, east Dallas has lots of areas that have a rundown look to them...guess what, that's the Mexican barrio. So when you say that Dallas isn't so rundown and if it ever got that way, the white people would throw a hissy-fit about it...you're damn straight...the white folks are rich and are directly connected to the city hall and know how to get things done, and do so without a problem.
Dallas is also a very Republican-leaning town (sure it's been voting Democratic recently, thanks to all the new arrivals from all over), so anything good for big business that is also connected with city hall almost automatically gets things done its way. The result is that flashy new real estate developments go up at a very quick rate.... so what if downtown itself has a vacancy rate approaching 30%?! (Philly's office vacancy rate is closer to 12%, btw)... there is a whole new "Uptown" section that used to be an industrial brownfield site less than 10 years ago, in clear sight of all the office buildings in downtown. Now there are about 30 mid and high rise buildings there. Of course, they're not all full...and a lot of the million dollar condos are bought by NFL and NBA stars that don't even live there. The result is a Petomkin Village feel to the area. Dallas as a whole anyway definitely is very flashy and the locals have no problem leading a flashy lifestyle ("$30k millionaire" is a term coined for Dallasites afterall!) that is fake looking for company. Not everyone is like that, and all the new arrivals over the past few years are rapidly changing things (for the better), but still, if someone thinks everything is just hunky-dory in good ol' Dallas while they think everything is nasty in Philly, I think that perspective does not hold water in reality.
I think I said all my points, so I'll hold my piece. Either I have a nasty case of "grass is always greener on the other side", or Dallas is simply not my kind of town, and while I totally am aware of the downsides of Philly, all the many that they are, I do believe Philly is a more organic town and its people are genuinely nice if you give them an opportunity to interact with you.
I grew up in what is now "one" of the worst areas of North Phila(Logan). I don't know exactly where you stayed at and if you may have driven threw my old stomping ground on a trek up Broad Street but like all the towns and cities I've seen in our beautiful country every area has a measurable bad area for the total area it covers. My mom was born and raised in Stillmore Ga. and most of the homes their aren't as old as philadelphia and to be exact my grandmothers house probably still has a tin roof! I'm not talking trendy cool tin either. Believe me Atlanta is a nice clean city, but im sure most would consider it sooo new it should be kept clean. I have a neighbor who has a two year old mercedes and she's NEVER washed it! It still looks nice...actually. I don't think that will be said in ten years if she keeps it up. Phila county and its local suburbs cover a good area, its quite "in" to move up and move out to the burbs. But Philadelphians seem to be going through a moving back home phase currently after the 4.00 a gallon gas hike from last year. The Temple university area has(and no offense to anyone who lives in the temple University neighborhood) hit bottom a few years ago and it's now becoming trendy to buy those low priced homes and fix them up to internal mansions! This city in another 20 years I think with the excellent public transportation,( i mean you can get everywhere you want to go in the city quite easily, Im not waving a Septa flag and cheerleading mind you!) will start to look alot better. With the cost of gas expecting to go up and up some more in the upcoming years, i think Society Hill(the "priceyest" homes in the business district, will have some competition for home values. But every Philly dude and chick knows the secret to our city, it's all about do you live on a "nice block" or not. I think its always been that way, funny thing is even the burbs follow the same rule. Isn't it that way in Atlanta too? It was when i was there as a kid. Maybe it's changed in 30 years.
There are a lot of things that are wrong with Philadelphia. Outsiders passing through usually have no clue what they are. I can only liken it to a summer job i had while i was in college in SC. My boss was originally from Chicago and I had to drive him from downtown Charleston to the airport so he could catch a flight back to Chicago. He asked where I was from and he immediately said, "oh, i've been there, that place is awful, all those refineries and billboards . . !" The irony is that, if you've ever driven the stretch of I-26 between downtown Charleston and the airport it's pretty much the same thing. I told him "you mean like this? I hope you're not flying to Midway."
Quote:
Originally Posted by a75206
Which is what, in part, separates Philly from one of its peer cities, Boston. Boston, for whatever reason, also is just as old as Philly if not older by a few decades; Boston too had lots of industry and the deindustrialization took its toll. But look at it now...not just the city but the overall metro area of Boston usually outshines that of Philly.
Boston had all the same problems that Philly has now. The difference is that Boston had them 30 years ago. Philadelphia lost its industry in the 60's and 70s. Boston lost it's industry 40 years earlier when the textile industry moved to the Carolinas. It's not that Boston is fundamentally different - that there's something different in its psyche or politics - it's that Boston has had a lot longer to retool.
Boston had all the same problems that Philly has now. The difference is that Boston had them 30 years ago. Philadelphia lost its industry in the 60's and 70s. Boston lost it's industry 40 years earlier when the textile industry moved to the Carolinas. It's not that Boston is fundamentally different - that there's something different in its psyche or politics - it's that Boston has had a lot longer to retool.
I agree completely. If you think about cities like New York, Boston, DC and Chicago back in the 60s/70s/80s, these were not the gleaming, flourishing metropolises that many people consider them today. There is not one major city -- especially in the North -- that suburbanization and deindustrialization did not hit pretty hard. It's just that those cities formed their niche industries in the knowledge economy much quicker in banking, higher education, government and finance, respectively.
Philadelphia is very much on track to follow the urban reinvestment/revitalization trends of the aforementioned cities by really focusing on its higher education, medical and pharmaceutical strengths -- even if it is a little bit late to the game compared to its peers.
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Either I have a nasty case of "grass is always greener on the other side", or Dallas is simply not my kind of town, and while I totally am aware of the downsides of Philly, all the many that they are, I do believe Philly is a more organic town and its people are genuinely nice if you give them an opportunity to interact with you.
