The Get Philly Moving Plan (Philadelphia, Erie: DMV, live, shop)

[Phil O.]

Hello All,

I've been browsing here for a little while, but this is my first post. I also thought it would be one of the best places to get feedback on a personal project I've been working on - The Get Philly Moving Plan.

Some of you may be familiar with Damien Goodmon's "Get L.A. Moving" Plan (which can be seen at Get L.A. Moving - Main Page). I've studied it in the past and thought that Philly could equally benefit from a system that strong.

Below is the map I've come up with for the plan. It combines several previously proposed extensions, some speculated on various message boards, and of course, my own contributions. The colored lines are intended as subway/elevated heavy rail lines, the smaller green lines are trolleys, and the rest is commuter rail. I'm working on getting it copyrighted so that I may turn the proposal into a website, but any feedback or suggestions you guys might have would be greatly appreciated, as it's still a document in some transition. Thanks!

[Fiss240]

Very cool. Reminds me of the subway maps from when I lived in Tokyo for a year. To me the biggest negative of the philly area system is the lack of electronic ticket booths/passcard system. I know that they have been working on it, but to me, until that is done it will remain a 2nd class system with world class potential.
Another thing I picked up in Japan: development around train stations is critical. Cafe's, dining, shoping, housing and entertainment. There are literally dozens and dozens of trainstops in Tokyo that see hundreds of thousands of people go through every year and it is because of all the stuff within walking distance.

[killakoolaide]

Yeah I could see SEPTIC doing this.

[Fiss240]

The main problem is that septa is government run. There are literally 30 independent railway operators just in the Tokyo area, all of which are privately owned and operated with the exception of 2 subway companies. Commuter rail can be very profitable when done correctly. Government is required to start these sorts of projects, however.

Septa exists despite the excellent rail infrastructure in southeast PA, not because of it.

[PhaninWA]

Originally Posted by Fiss240

The main problem is that septa is government run. There are literally 30 independent railway operators just in the Tokyo area, all of which are privately owned and operated with the exception of 2 subway companies. Commuter rail can be very profitable when done correctly. Government is required to start these sorts of projects, however.

Septa exists despite the excellent rail infrastructure in southeast PA, not because of it.

Sure, blame the government for everything....
Because London Underground, DC Metro, NYC MTA, BART & Muni in SF, MARTA are all for profit right?

[Marius Pontmercy]

Your Ogontz-Cheltenham line should diverge from the BSL at Erie, not Wyoming. There is already a junction built into the tunnel there for a proposed extension that was never built. And your parkway line could run down Pennsylvania Ave. since there's already a tunnel there, and a sunken grade that follows Callowhill St. into Center City.

[Fiss240]

Originally Posted by PhaninWA

Sure, blame the government for everything....
Because London Underground, DC Metro, NYC MTA, BART & Muni in SF, MARTA are all for profit right?

Point taken. Let me revise my statement. Septa is run like government agency if that agency were able to fulfill all the worst stereotypes of government agencies. I think its great I can file all my DMV stuff online in PA, septa should go through similar modernizations to bring it into the 21st century. I was mostly trying to illustrate how bad Septa is, surely you would agree there is enormous room for improvement.

[Phil O.]

Thank you for the kind words, Fiss.

Marius, with regards to your suggestions:

Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy

Your Ogontz-Cheltenham line should diverge from the BSL at Erie, not Wyoming. There is already a junction built into the tunnel there for a proposed extension that was never built.

True, but branching it from Wyoming Park allows for an easier connection to the Bustleton/Twenty-Second Line (at the previous Hunting Park/Broad station). This would further make the Broad/Hunting Park stop a major transit hub.

Yes, a stop could be built at Hunting Park & Germantown Ave. if you branched off at Erie/Broad, but that area is already served with the restoration of the Route 23 trolley.

Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy

And your parkway line could run down Pennsylvania Ave. since there's already a tunnel there, and a sunken grade that follows Callowhill St. into Center City.

This actually IS the intended area for the Parkway-Ridge Line. I went over this as I was making the map and the name "Pennsylvania-Ridge Line" just didn't work for me. The Parkway is the closest major street and it's the area that the line intends to serve, plus "Parkway-Ridge" just sounds better anyway, so that's why I went with it.

Looking at it again now, the 20th/Spring Garden station should actually be 20th/Callowhill though. The Spring Garden stop at Broad would be extended to be multi-modal for both lines.

Thank you for the feedback.

[Duderino]

Very nice and comprehensive transportation proposal; that is one that would absolutely place Philly in the highest class for urban infrastructure worldwide. If only a fraction of that were to be implemented, particularly in areas that could definitely use more high-speed mass transit (i.e., large swaths of South and Northeast Philadelphia and many outer-ring suburbs), the city and region would be very well-positioned for the future. Like another poster mentioned, Philadelphia and many of its inner-suburbs with so much abandoned rail infrastructure have so much potential for revitalization vis-a-vis transit-oriented development.

Places like Tokyo, most Eurpoean cities and even the DC area (which has a slew of modern TOD) should serve as a model to SEPTA, commercial/residential developers and local municipal leaders in the region in the years going forward. It's the perfect -- and quite frankly, the only -- answer to sprawling out of control.

[b1gsexy]

Originally Posted by Fiss240

Point taken. Let me revise my statement. Septa is run like government agency if that agency were able to fulfill all the worst stereotypes of government agencies. I think its great I can file all my DMV stuff online in PA, septa should go through similar modernizations to bring it into the 21st century. I was mostly trying to illustrate how bad Septa is, surely you would agree there is enormous room for improvement.

Don't apologize. His examples are weak. NY has about 6 times as many people. DC is the capitol and get 6x as much money per capita as any state.

The problem with Philly is people don't want to take mass transit. Why would be add lines if the existing lines are not at capacity?