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Old 10-07-2015, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,636,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Yes that would be bizarre wouldn't it!

But alas there are no worries since no one has ever made the claim that they understand life by peering through a microscope.
Great. And I guess that's that.

 
Old 10-07-2015, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,271,536 times
Reputation: 7528
Here is the History of DNA which has been the single biggest breakthrough of our time with respect to supporting Evolution as well as new medical breakthroughs.

1856-1863 Gregor Johann Mendel and Austrian Monk grew peas and did experiments with them. And he came up with what was we now call Mendelian inheritance: its inheritance of biological features that follows the laws proposed by Gregor Johann Mendel in 1865 and 1866 and re-discovered in 1900. It was initially very controversial. We still use Mendelian Genetics today see Punnett Square.

At this time DNA was an unknown and Mendel had no idea what was going on. He did understand that there was a discrete unit in each parent that was being passed to the progeny. He was fortunate that the peas he worked with in his garden subscribed to Mendelian Genetics. Poor Mendel was ignored even after he published his work. We now know that most inheritance is non Mendelian.

1900: Mendelian Genetics was rediscovered by 3 genetics who thought their work was original until they did what would be the equivalent of today as a literature search and voila they found Mendel’s work.

1859: Darwin published The Origin of Species. Darwin never heard of Mendel’s work nor did he even know what DNA was.

1869: DNA was discovered but no one knew what it was, thus they paid no attention to it!

1912: Beginnings of X-ray crystallography which became a major method of elucidating the structure of macro molecules.

1915: Thomas Hunt Morgan and his colleagues identified the chromosome as the structure in the cell that is responsible for the transmission of heredity information. His major work was called: The Mechanism of Mendelian Heredity. Chromosomes have a lot of protein in them besides DNA. So at this time since proteins were understood whereas DNA was not…it was believed it was the other proteins in the chromosome that were responsible for inheritance.

1944: A superb experiment was done…in fact one of the best you will ever read about. Avery, MacLeod and McCarty proved that it was the DNA part of the chromosomes that transmitted inheritance not the other proteins. In brief what they did was take the chromosomes and subjected them to proteases that chopped up the proteins and found that the chromosomes still maintained the ability to transmit inheritance.

Then they subjected the DNA to DNace’s which chops up the DNA, and discovered the transmission of inheritance was lost.

This proved that it was the DNA part of the chromosomes that is responsible for heredity.

1953: Crick, Watson, Franklin, Wilkins – Crick and Watson deciphered the DNA structure BUT they were only able to do so because Franklin and Wilkins used X-ray crystallography and got detailed graphs of DNA, which they used in conjunction with some other data to elucidate the structure of DNA. When the Noble Prize was awarded for this Franklin had passed away from ovarian cancer, thus Watson, Crick and Wilkins shared the Nobel Prize.

2003: 50 years later the Human Genome was sequenced. This has absolutely determined medicine in our era. You can bet 100 years from now or even 500 years from now when humans look back on this time, they will look back on those 50 years in the same way that we look back on the 50 years following the Voyage of Columbus. It will certainly be that much of a game changer.

It's fascinating how much our knowledge has evolved since Mendel and Darwin's era.
 
Old 10-07-2015, 05:40 PM
 
47,000 posts, read 26,056,438 times
Reputation: 29480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Here is the History of DNA which has been the single biggest breakthrough of our time with respect to supporting Evolution as well as new medical breakthroughs.

1856-1863 Gregor Johann Mendel and Austrian Monk grew peas and did experiments with them. And he came up with what was we now call Mendelian inheritance: its inheritance of biological features that follows the laws proposed by Gregor Johann Mendel in 1865 and 1866 and re-discovered in 1900. It was initially very controversial. We still use Mendelian Genetics today see Punnett Square.

At this time DNA was an unknown and Mendel had no idea what was going on. He did understand that there was a discrete unit in each parent that was being passed to the progeny. He was fortunate that the peas he worked with in his garden subscribed to Mendelian Genetics. Poor Mendel was ignored even after he published his work. We now know that most inheritance is non Mendelian.

1900: Mendelian Genetics was rediscovered by 3 genetics who thought their work was original until they did what would be the equivalent of today as a literature search and voila they found Mendel’s work.

1859: Darwin published The Origin of Species. Darwin never heard of Mendel’s work nor did he even know what DNA was.

1869: DNA was discovered but no one knew what it was, thus they paid no attention to it!

1912: Beginnings of X-ray crystallography which became a major method of elucidating the structure of macro molecules.

1915: Thomas Hunt Morgan and his colleagues identified the chromosome as the structure in the cell that is responsible for the transmission of heredity information. His major work was called: The Mechanism of Mendelian Heredity. Chromosomes have a lot of protein in them besides DNA. So at this time since proteins were understood whereas DNA was not…it was believed it was the other proteins in the chromosome that were responsible for inheritance.

1944: A superb experiment was done…in fact one of the best you will ever read about. Avery, MacLeod and McCarty proved that it was the DNA part of the chromosomes that transmitted inheritance not the other proteins. In brief what they did was take the chromosomes and subjected them to proteases that chopped up the proteins and found that the chromosomes still maintained the ability to transmit inheritance.

Then they subjected the DNA to DNace’s which chops up the DNA, and discovered the transmission of inheritance was lost.

This proved that it was the DNA part of the chromosomes that is responsible for heredity.

1953: Crick, Watson, Franklin, Wilkins – Crick and Watson deciphered the DNA structure BUT they were only able to do so because Franklin and Wilkins used X-ray crystallography and got detailed graphs of DNA, which they used in conjunction with some other data to elucidate the structure of DNA. When the Noble Prize was awarded for this Franklin had passed away from ovarian cancer, thus Watson, Crick and Wilkins shared the Nobel Prize.

2003: 50 years later the Human Genome was sequenced. This has absolutely determined medicine in our era. You can bet 100 years from now or even 500 years from now when humans look back on this time, they will look back on those 50 years in the same way that we look back on the 50 years following the Voyage of Columbus. It will certainly be that much of a game changer.

It's fascinating how much our knowledge has evolved since Mendel and Darwin's era.
I think it's tragic. Imagine what these people could have achieved, had they only turned to golf and landscape painting.
 
Old 10-07-2015, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,271,536 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
I think it's tragic. Imagine what these people could have achieved, had they only turned to golf and landscape painting.
Tragic What's tragic about scientific discovery?

The only thing I find tragic was that in 1869 DNA was discovered but they did not understand it or know what it was therefore it was ignored for another 50-60 years.
 
Old 10-07-2015, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,636,356 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
I think it's tragic. Imagine what these people could have achieved, had they only turned to golf and landscape painting.
Heck, they did what they did and they experimented with stuff during their lives and observed a few things. Interesting stuff? For some? Earth shattering stuff. Maybe for a few. For me it is not very interesting. Give me good dancing music and I get excited. ☺ Insofar whether or not they understood or cared about the nature of life, I have no idea.

But if one wishes to understand life, best not to just peer through a microscope out a telescope. My suggestion would be to experience it. Maybe through dance or music or a good novel?

We are all experimenting and experiencing. As with everything in life, the more we nurture our Creative Intelligence the faster it evolves and the more we understand. But as it is, there is no hurry. Everyone gets there eventually since we are all evolving together as we communicate or new knowledge to each other. Such is the nature of life.
 
Old 10-07-2015, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,271,536 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
But if one wishes to understand life, best not to just peer through a microscope out a telescope. My suggestion would be to experience it. Maybe through dance or music or a good novel?
Your personal experience in life does not equate to understanding life as a whole. That's about as narrow of a perspective as it gets.

It's fascinating to learn about Universe and observing things through microscopes and telescopes.

Expand your horizons.
 
Old 10-07-2015, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,636,356 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Your personal experience in life does not equate to understanding life as a whole. That's about as narrow of a perspective as it gets.

It's fascinating to learn about Universe and observing things through microscopes and telescopes.

Expand your horizons.
It's just one thing. I've done that too. But to understand Life one must look for similarities within differences and differences within similarities among the many, many, many aspects of life. The easy route of looking through instruments leads necessarily to myopic conclusions

But each person does what one does and evolves in one's own manner. It is of no matter. I am merely sharing my own experiences with some suggestions for those who may be interested.
 
Old 10-07-2015, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,271,536 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
It's just one thing. I've done that too. But to understand Life one must look for similarities within differences and differences within similarities among the many, many, many aspects of life.
Holy Jeepers by golly Batman you have just described what they do in the field of Evolution!

Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
The easy route of looking through instruments leads necessarily to myopic conclusions
You are describing religion here. Just replace the word instruments with holy book.

US physicist Lawrence Krauss is spreading the gospel of science to Iranians via an outlawed satellite TV network. Laurence Krauss says it quite nicely here.

Skip to 9:43


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJVO8eCYPCc


Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
But each person does what one does and evolves in one's own manner. It is of no matter. I am merely sharing my own experiences with some suggestions for those who may be interested.
This thread is not about personal growth.

Its about the topic of Biological Evolution which encompasses a lot of scientific areas.
 
Old 10-07-2015, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,636,356 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post


This thread is not about personal growth.

Its about the topic of Biological Evolution which encompasses a lot of scientific areas.
They are precisely and exactly the same. Creative Intelligence is evolving. It is right there and you cannot see it. Unfortunately you are trying to find Life through a microscope while you should be looking at a mirror.
 
Old 10-07-2015, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,271,536 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
They are precisely and exactly the same. Creative Intelligence is evolving. It is right there and you cannot see it. Unfortunately you are trying to find Life through a microscope while you should be looking at a mirror.
You are ignorant to science so it is of no surprise that you think what you just posted.

There is no validity to what you are saying about science.

I suggest again that you listen to Laurence Krauss in the video above. You will find what he says about science does not match what you continue to post.

Life on Earth is evolving just has it always has. There is nothing magical about it.
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