Houses close together/noise (cul-de-sac, HOA, buying a home)

[themudpuppy]

I'm used to living on acreage, which I know I won't be able to get in Arizona in my price range, so I'm trying to prepare myself for having very close neighbors. It looks like most of the homes in my price range are on 5,000 - 7,000 sf lots. Are homes there pretty well-insulated against noise? I live in a mobile home now and they are not well-insulated, so you hear everything. With houses so close together in AZ that you can see into your neighbor's window, I wonder if you can hear everything your neighbor does.

Do people usually keep their windows closed and use a/c, or do people often have windows open with TVs and radios playing loud enough for the next door neighbor to hear, or if there is a baby next door that cries all night, do you hear it?

If it makes a difference, the homes I'm looking at were built between 1998 - 2005.

[mistygrl092]

Well, I can say this much. In the summer no one can have their windows open, so for a good portion of the year you won't have to worry about this.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by tnp

I'm used to living on acreage, which I know I won't be able to get in Arizona in my price range, so I'm trying to prepare myself for having very close neighbors. It looks like most of the homes in my price range are on 5,000 - 7,000 sf lots. Are homes there pretty well-insulated against noise? I live in a mobile home now and they are not well-insulated, so you hear everything. With houses so close together in AZ that you can see into your neighbor's window, I wonder if you can hear everything your neighbor does.

Do people usually keep their windows closed and use a/c, or do people often have windows open with TVs and radios playing loud enough for the next door neighbor to hear, or if there is a baby next door that cries all night, do you hear it?

If it makes a difference, the homes I'm looking at were built between 1998 - 2005.

Your mobile home might be better insulated for sound than many homes in AZ - most modern mobiles that I've seen had 2x6 walls ... Back east, double wides had to be a minimum of 25 feet apart for fire reasons... with a tile roof & "fire-resistant" siding, developers here were able to cram "regular" houses much closer together.

If the houses you're looking at are 8-10 feet apart, you'll hear everything you expect & some things you don't expect...

this is where it pays to be a picky buyer... even in close-in neighborhoods there's usually at least one home with an extra strip of land, that funny triangle the developer couldn't quite fit one more home on, or the end of a cul-de-sac, etc... usually someone gets a "bonus" lot... that's the house you want...pay a little extra if you have to, it's worth it!

[aiwei]

for the last 2 years i barely can afford to run ac in the summer and have had windows opened day and night. and yes, we could hear what our neighbors were saying or hollering at times, if they also had their windows open. the good thing is, we do have good neighbors and we have never heard anything nasty. in the winter, we occasionally left the windows open and hardly heard anything b/c our neighbors all ran their furnaces. all in all, it depends on who lives next to you and how often you all living with the doors and windows open. i think if we use our ac in summer and furnace in winter, we would never know what the neighbors are doing!

[Captain Bill]

Our lot is small, and we don't have a noise problem. We do hear some noise; it's certainly not sound proof.

The newer homes all have double pane windows that help with insulation and sound reduction. Homes with 6 inch walls afford further insulation and sound reduction.

[Ponderosa]

I never hear the neighbors. My current house is a cul de sac so there is more distance but even when I lived in a patio home with zero lot lines, I did not hear them. Outside is a different story, though. I can hear them all too well.

The construction method of az homes actually helps with sound. Stucco has very poor sound transmission characteristics owing to the many air spaces in it and its irregular surface. So it is an excellent choice for reducing noise. Fortunately, virtually all homes here are stucco. It's like being wrapped in a popcorn ceiling!

[themudpuppy]

Thanks for the opinions on this.

My mobile home is older, so it doesn't have 2x6 walls, and it definitely does not have good insulation.

When I get down to Arizona to actually look at the homes, I'll see if I can find out which ones have double pane windows and 5 inch walls. That extra strip of land or end of a cul-de-sac sounds nice, if I can find one.

I noticed the newer neighborhoods in my price range with an HOA are built closer together than some of the older neighborhoods without an HOA. I was wanting an HOA, in the hopes that they would have some noise rules (booming stereos, barking dogs, people racing 4-wheelers and dirt bikes in their yards or on the road in front of my house, etc.), but I don't know if I would be better off with a larger lot and no HOA or a smaller lot with an HOA. Noise is one of my biggest concerns when buying a home. I like peace and quiet. I do expect some "normal" noises, just don't want extreme noises.

[themudpuppy]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Stucco has very poor sound transmission characteristics owing to the many air spaces in it and its irregular surface. So it is an excellent choice for reducing noise. Fortunately, virtually all homes here are stucco. It's like being wrapped in a popcorn ceiling!

I've always liked the look of stucco. Now that I know it helps with noise, I like it even more.

Regarding cul-de-sacs, here in TN when you live in a cul-de-sac, they get the most noise from racing 4-wheelers and dirt bikes in the cul-de-sac. You hear the roar of engines all day long in the summer, and every afternoon until after dark on school days. It's not just kids either. The men do it when they get home from work too. They love to race the cul-de-sacs because of the curve at the end. I assume this isn't a common problem in Arizona cul-de-sacs like it is here?

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by tnp

Thanks for the opinions on this.

My mobile home is older, so it doesn't have 2x6, and it definitely does not have good insulation.

When I get down to Arizona to actually look at the homes, I'll see if I can find out which ones have double pane windows and 5 inch walls. That extra strip of land or end of a cul-de-sac sounds nice, if I can find one.

I noticed the newer neighborhoods in my price range with an HOA are built closer together than some of the older neighborhoods without an HOA. I was wanting an HOA, in the hopes that they would have some noise rules (booming stereos, barking dogs, people racing 4-wheelers and dirt bikes in their yards or on the road in front of my house, etc.), but I don't know if I would be better off with a larger lot and no HOA or a smaller lot with an HOA. Noise is one of my biggest concerns when buying a home. I like peace and quiet. I do expect some "normal" noises, just don't want extreme noises.

Thicker walls won't matter that much. The reason is that sound is transmitted through the studs. Two more inches doesn't matter that much. What you need to have is an air gap. Sound walls have two (or more) rows of studs separated by a gap. The treatment on the outside matters more. Stucco as I posted earlier is a good treatment. Typically, stucco is applied over styrofoam here, which makes it even more effective. You mobile likely has hard siding tightly attached to the studs. Its works like a drum skin.

Dual panes do matter because of that air gap. They don't help much with cooling bills (most heat gain is radiant and you need low-e glass to reduce that)but they are very effective for sound.

Honestly, though, I don't think you will have a problem unless you have some really bad neighbors.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Thicker walls won't matter that much. The reason is that sound is transmitted through the studs. Two more inches doesn't matter that much. What you need to have is an air gap. Sound walls have two (or more) rows of studs separated by a gap. The treatment on the outside matters more. Stucco as I posted earlier is a good treatment. Typically, stucco is applied over styrofoam here, which makes it even more effective. You mobile likely has hard siding tightly attached to the studs. Its works like a drum skin.

Dual panes do matter because of that air gap. They don't help much with cooling bills (most heat gain is radiant and you need low-e glass to reduce that)but they are very effective for sound.

Honestly, though, I don't think you will have a problem unless you have some really bad neighbors.

Respectfully, stucco is actually worse for noise than siding, and if you've ever been in a house with 2x6 walls you would know the difference in noise transmission is immense.

That said, the OP is looking for a needle in a haystack - I'd suggest limiting the search to homes with lots over 7500 square feet, and 10k square feet if there's money in the budget. The construction details and age of the house are far less important than the space between neighbors, if you don't want to listen to your neighbor's toilet flush.

On a 7-10k square foot lot, you can get away with single-pane windows & 2x4 walls without compromising on sound. On a 4500 sq foot lot, when the weather is cool and you leave the windows open, you're very likely to hear a neighbor three houses down getting "biblical" with his wife.

As for bad neighbors, we got lots of them. I'm pretty certain the sun bakes the common sense and courtesy right out of people out here, so given that, the best neighbors are the ones who live further away.

You will have hillbilly neighbors who ride quads, souped-up golf carts, "boom-boom" cars, etc in your neighborhood, even if it's a HOA neighborhood with a gate, and even if they have million $ + homes.

Often that third bay in those three-car garages is occupied by something you don't want to listen to as a neighbor - be it a golf-cart on 20's, a Harley without a muffler, or a row of quads.

The best protection from the nuisance is to have dual-pane windows (at least in the front of your house) and a house that's far enough back from the road so you don't have to be disturbed by it.

If it were me, I'd open the search up a bit if possible - if you like tile roofs, you can go back to about 1985~ish and still get one. The builders generally weren't as stingy with the land then either, so you're likely to get closer to your ultimate goal. If you insist on 1998 or newer, with a 10k square-foot lot, double pane windows & no hillbilly neighbors...well, that might not be possible unless your budget is very large or you're willing to drive in from way outside of town.