Latest South Mountain Freeway proposal (Loop 202 final leg) (Phoenix, Gila Bend: photo radar, sales)

[Valley Native]

MAG weighs Loop 202 alternative

When I read this, I was pretty ticked off ... but not too surprised considering what goes on with the NIMBYs and their consistent whining. MAG is trying to appease the crybaby Ahwatukee Foothills residents by proposing a "parkway", which would basically be a large divided street (not a freeway), and it would consist of four lanes in each direction, instead of five.

All right, here's why I'm ticked off: this freeway has been in the plans for well over TWENTY YEARS! If people in this area are opposed to the route because it would result in demolished homes, why were these homes allowed to be built along this corridor in the first place ... and why were the residents stupid enough to BUY houses along a future freeway route?! Did they not bother to read the plans before hand???

Furthermore, the new name they're considering for this parkway is asinine: Arizona Parkway. Good grief! Just when I thought MAG and ADOT couldn't come up with any more stupid names for roads! "Arizona Parkway" makes it sound like it would be the only parkway in Arizona.
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I say ignore the pathetic NIMBYs, and get on with the construction! This freeway route has already been approved by voters TWICE: once in 1985, and the other in 2004 ... so you could say that the funds have already been allocated twice for this freeway as well. Enough of this wasting of taxpayers' money squabbling over the route. Stick with the original plans, kick out the NIMBYs, and build the freeway once and for all!

[Woody7]

Epic mistake. When building out Ahwatukee, enough land should have been set aside at the Pecos road alignment to build the freeway. No One should have ever banked on the Native Americans to sell, lease, or donate any right of way for a freeway.

[Cyborg13]

As annoying as this is, are you actually suprised by this? People are stupid...they always have been and they always will be. I am sure many of these same people whine about traffic on I-10 too...extending 202 will go a long way to help alleviate those problems. This new proposal will do nothing...at 45 MPH everyone will stay on I-10, and the parkway will be little more than a collosal waste of money.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Cyborg13

As annoying as this is, are you actually suprised by this? People are stupid...they always have been and they always will be. I am sure many of these same people whine about traffic on I-10 too...extending 202 will go a long way to help alleviate those problems. This new proposal will do nothing...at 45 MPH everyone will stay on I-10, and the parkway will be little more than a collosal waste of money.

Oh yes, I forgot about the part of the article that said the speed limit would be 45. Can you imagine traffic meandering on an eight lane road at 45 MPH??? That won't serve for any kind of traffic relief ... just more slow driving. However, I'm sure that a wide parkway with a 45 MPH speed limit would be a good target area for more dreaded photo radar cameras to be installed. What a money maker for the state's coffers that would be!
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How stupid can MAG and ADOT actually be??? With this latest proposal, all they're doing is caving in to the NIMBYs who are nothing but losers who love to complain about progress. The problem with the Phoenix area is that even though the NIMBYs are in the minority, they are highly vocal and pestering to the point where many people in construction, development, and government end up throwing in the towel & giving the NIMBYs their way.

Enough time and money has already been wasted on bickering over this Loop 202 leg. It has been in the plans since 1985, so it's time for the protestors & preservationists to step aside and let the freeway be built. Ahwatukee is nothing but a massive cul de sac with only one freeway to serve the area. I can't understand why Ahwatukee residents who oppose the Loop 202 freeway seem to want to keep Ahwatukee a congested nightmare.

[roosevelt]

Originally Posted by Cyborg13

As annoying as this is, are you actually suprised by this? People are stupid...they always have been and they always will be. I am sure many of these same people whine about traffic on I-10 too...extending 202 will go a long way to help alleviate those problems. This new proposal will do nothing...at 45 MPH everyone will stay on I-10, and the parkway will be little more than a collosal waste of money.

I recall the Squaw Peak '51' parkway coming to a complete stop at Thomas Road for a traffic signal. What a farce that was; a few years later they made it into a real freeway but a few residents were appeased for a while originally just to get the thing built.

[miamiman]

I guess you missed the part of the story where it said a parkway would be significantly cheaper than a freeway. Why wouldn't MAG be attracted to the cheaper proposal? We are going through a recession.

Ahwatukee residents are the people who are going have to put up with people whizzing by every minute, so if they want a parkway, that's what they should get.

[buckeyenative01]

Nobody's going to treat it as a "parkway," and I'm half-convinced the entire reason houses were built along the original path in the first place was that buyers knew eventually the 202 connection would commence and homeowners knew they could milk it for all its worth if ADOT really wanted to build the extension.

Lets see if that works at all given the state of the economy, foreclosures and lack of transportation funds.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by buckeyenative01

Nobody's going to treat it as a "parkway," and I'm half-convinced the entire reason houses were built along the original path in the first place was that buyers knew eventually the 202 connection would commence and homeowners knew they could milk it for all its worth if ADOT really wanted to build the extension.

Lets see if that works at all given the state of the economy, foreclosures and lack of transportation funds.

That's a good point. I'm really not too surprised if residents bought along that proposed route just so they could stir trouble. That seems to be the mindset of many NIMBYs. They don't seem to have any consideration that voters approved the Ahwatukee section of the Loop 202 TWICE in the form of two separate transportation initiatives. The freeway was originally part of the 1985 proposition, which created a half cent sales tax for freeway projects. The combination of NIMBYism, and ADOT's mis handling of the funding caused the project to be put on hold ... so it was placed on the 2004 ballot & passed by the majority.

Admittedly, nobody likes to have their homes destroyed to make way for progress ... but hey, that's life in a fast growing, sprawling metro area like this. My childhood home in north Phoenix was demolished about 15 years ago to make way for the 51 freeway extension, which was sad, but life goes on. The residents along the 202 leg knew the plans were in place for a freeway route long before they moved in. So now they need to quit their bellyaching, and clear the way as they should have done years ago!

[buckeyenative01]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

That's a good point. I'm really not too surprised if residents bought along that proposed route just so they could stir trouble. That seems to be the mindset of many NIMBYs. They don't seem to have any consideration that voters approved the Ahwatukee section of the Loop 202 TWICE in the form of two separate transportation initiatives. The freeway was originally part of the 1985 proposition, which created a half cent sales tax for freeway projects. The combination of NIMBYism, and ADOT's mis handling of the funding caused the project to be put on hold ... so it was placed on the 2004 ballot & passed by the majority.

Admittedly, nobody likes to have their homes destroyed to make way for progress ... but hey, that's life in a fast growing, sprawling metro area like this. My childhood home in north Phoenix was demolished about 15 years ago to make way for the 51 freeway extension, which was sad, but life goes on. The residents along the 202 leg knew the plans were in place for a freeway route long before they moved in. So now they need to quit their bellyaching, and clear the way as they should have done years ago!

As someone who frequently makes the trip from Ahwatukee to California, I'd kill to have a 202 extension on the West Side just to bypass all the traffic going through Downtown.

I distinctly remember friends' families being excited over buying houses way out where ADOT wants to build the 202 connector. I even asked one what they were going to do about it (this was 2001 or 2002 when the Pecos to I-10/202 extension was under construction) and he said something along the lines of "The state will pay for my family to move". Its really a shame ADOT/City of Phoenix and/or whoever else was in charge didn't put a stop to the home construction at the time so we wouldn't be in this mess.

Then again, home construction was THE business in Phoenix at the time and nobody in their right mind would dare go up against that cash cow. As they say, hindsight is 20/20.

And since those houses are just an extension of ugly suburban sprawl, I can't really shed a tear over the loss of anything intresting, architecturally (they are families' homes, but we're not losing Frank Lloyd Wright designs here). The real crime was the gerrymandering of neighborhoods seen in Los Angeles during the freeway construction boom (one side of the freeway is affluent, the other dirt poor/crime/gang infested) and through rows of historic neighborhoods back in the 1950s seen in places like my hometown of Cincinnati. Fortunately, we won't be seeing that if/when the 202 extension is built.

[pbenjamin]

I have often thought that a cheaper alternative yet would be to construct a rural freeway that follows the route of SR-85 between I-8 and I-10 at Gila Bend. Through traffic on I-10 (trucks and cars not stopping in Phoenix) could be routed that way (e.g. westbound traffic taking I-8 to SR-85 back to 10) and eliminate the a lot of the congestion on I-10 in Phoenix. It would be a longer stretch of road than the proposed South Mountain freeway but it seems like it would cost a whole lot less to build.

It would also have the benefit of not encouraging more sprawl in the Valley.