Tempe streetcar project is underway.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Are you serious?

There have been a ton of projects that have broken ground or have already been completed in the last 4 years and I don't doubt that for many, if not all, the proximity of light rail was one of the reasons they are there.

ASU Downtown, 44 Monroe, Cityscape, One Central Park East just to name a few...there are many many more.

I think you're right, and there probably would have been more development in the places that need it but the double-dip recession had a lot to do with why things aren't getting built faster.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Our ideas of what public transit should be are obviously different and we're not going to agree on this. I don't think public transit should make a profit, it's there for the public to use if they need to and it's for the greater good of the city. It's like public parks...do you expect those to make some sort of profit? Or museums (which I think should have no entrance fee).

Transit is for the greater good, I agree. However, I don't see why it couldn't be funded (or at least partially funded) by private enterprise & user fees. Government and taxes don't always have to be involved in providing a public service. Look at utility companies: they provide essential services for the good of the public, but they are not government organizations. In fact, I believe there might be more progress with mass transit & freeways if they were privately run. Don't knock profits ... they can actually be motivators for competition & better efficiency.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Transit is for the greater good, I agree. However, I don't see why it couldn't be funded (or at least partially funded) by private enterprise & user fees. Government and taxes don't always have to be involved in providing a public service. Look at utility companies: they provide essential services for the good of the public, but they are not government organizations. In fact, I believe there might be more progress with mass transit & freeways if they were privately run. Don't knock profits ... they can actually be motivators for competition & better efficiency.

I disagree.

Tollroads are a good example of private business getting involved in public works. They amount to double taxation because you pay a fee for using the road and a tax to the city or state on top of it.

The government-run system isn't perfect but it's the best we got, everyone chips in a little to support mass transit, police, libraries, schools, parks, and other public services for the greater good.

[j_cat]

How many times must we correct the propaganda that "private" transit is any more self-supporting than public transit?

Phoenix is so far behind in this aspect, and yet too many people still want to turn back the clock. It blows my mind.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Java Jolt

The government-run system isn't perfect but it's the best we got, everyone chips in a little to support mass transit, police, libraries, schools, parks, and other public services for the greater good.

Originally Posted by j_cat

How many times must we correct the propaganda that "private" transit is any more self-supporting than public transit?

Because typically, when government is in charge of projects, the costs are greater and the progress is slower. Even if government was as equally efficient as private enterprise, I just think a greater percentage of private businesses and individuals who support things like transit, schools, etc., should be contirbuting more on their own. It's the basic concept of: you use it, you pay for it.

As in the Tempe streetcar project, there are a good share of corporate offices in the area that have workers who use transit. Companies in the area benefit from having a good variety of transit services, so they along with their workers who use transit, should be willing to flip the bill. Making everybody chip in amounts to forced taxation ... and remember, a tax is hardly ever temporary.

[Java Jolt]

Originally Posted by j_cat

How many times must we correct the propaganda that "private" transit is any more self-supporting than public transit?

Phoenix is so far behind in this aspect, and yet too many people still want to turn back the clock. It blows my mind.

Privately-funded anything that is meant for the good of the public is never better.

When I moved here I remember all the complaining over the Diamondbacks NL stadium funded with tax money, the madness lasted for awhile but nobody is complaining now.

Then there was all the opposition to light rail because it was publicly-funded, but the detractors hardly make a peep now ever since ridership numbers outweighed original predictions.

I think the same will be true with the Tempe streetcar, the detractors will stomp their feet and cry wolf now, but when it is a success there will be less noise.